More than 110 Palestinian prisoners have died from torture and mistreatment since Itamar Ben-Gvir became Israel’s security minister. Now he wants the power to hang them.
It’s time we stopped pretending that Israel was a little pocket of Europe and recognize that it’s a brutal theocratic regime. The biggest difference between Israel and States like Saudi Arabia and Iran is the branding.
I stopped. I was very pro Israel back in the day. Even said “well Israel wants to divide the country while hamas wants all Jews dead… I have to side with the Jews”
But then they did a genocide and it’s like “well there goes that theory”
No one likes to be wrong but what’s worse is continuing to be wrong after you know.
I don’t know the solution but I’ve changed my mind on the problem.
The secret is Israel was always doing a genocide.
Always is very broad term. I can tell you during ww2 they were not genocideing Palestine.
I agree that this was ramping up for longer than I knew but using words like “always” only hurts the cause .
It was “only” displacement, colonization, and (smaller) ethnic cleansing at that time
Edit: here’s a list of bombings by the Irgun, a Zionist militia and terrorist organization (who were eventually folded into the IDF) during (and after) WW2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks
Hers a list of mammoths migration patterns that sparked a resource war with Neanderthals.
I’m sure you are technically correct but that isn’t most people “starting point”
There’s only so far back you can go before people labor it non important
Edit: not important to current events. Not saying it wasn’t horrible
My point is 2000 years ago that was undisputed “Israel “ how far back are we going before we have to admit “that doesn’t matter for this discussion “
single-verse: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+20%3A17&version=CJB
Genociding was the founding of Israel, itself.
There isn’t any “Israel” which isn’t standing-on genociding, since all "Israel"s are standing on that biblical historical fact
( much in the bible is visibly-corrupted, much is simply male-ego’s bullying, pretending that male-ego is the worldly-manifestation of G-D, but that bit, corroborated in other books, looks factual, to me )
Genociding other nations was the basis of Israel, right at the root, according to the Jewish bible.
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You are so close. Why stop half way there. Look into the founding of Israel. It was always colonial and Zionist. Jews lived in Palestine before Israel. Peacefully with their Palestinian neighbors. The middle east wasn’t even the first place the UK and USA were looking to relocate the Jews to.
For a time they were looking to the jungles of South America. But the Zionists wouldn’t have it. Hijacking the process and demanding Palestine. After what happened to the Jewish people as a whole. (Though not most of the wealthy Zionists demanding Palestine. As they all fled with their families early.) There was a lot of sympathy collectively. And for many reasons the UK and allies finally caved on Palestine. So instead of moving and integrating with the local peoples and culture. They came rolling up with the aid of two large bullies to steal the land from under the people living in it. Day one minute one.
That isn’t to say that this was all or is all the people living in Israel. Just the leadership the whole time.
That was us not Israel. It was us saying “we want them freed… but don’t send them here!”
It’s complicated. That’s why say I don’t know what’s “right “ but I can tell what’s “wrong”
What’s going on now is wrong. I don’t think it’s fair to just say “the other guys are right, give it to them”
It’s complicated. But we all agree what is happening right now is wrong. That’s our common ground.
Israel used to be a lush forest. The further back you go the more complicated it gets.
We can agree “right now… this is wrong!”
Your position is the careful & considered position of someone who’s earning real experience-induced-understanding, in this world, 1 of the kinds of wisdom…
Carefulness-with-meaning is one of the fundamental signs of inner-maturity, in AwakeSoulism/Buddhism…
“right speech” it is called…
The “ALPHA/successfully-bullying is what VALID means!!” ideology/rabies will never value, let-alone respect, it, … but some of us, who’ve also earned enough experience-induced-understanding to be careful, value it when we see it…
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That’s what I’m going for. I want to be the best I can be and it’s a long road of gaining wisdom. I don’t ever expect to be perfect but I challenge myself to be better.
A single verse: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+20%3A17&version=CJB
The original founding of Israel, millenia-ago, was on the bedrock of genociding.
I presume that there’s been ebb-&-flow in motivation, … but I’ve seen Jewish discussions asking why there was sooo much genociding, in the founding of Judaism…
All this recent world-history, though, has caused me to understand something that I was too stupid to understand, before:
ALL genociding is rooted in narcissism.
Maybe “national” narcissism, maybe “personal” narcissism, maybe “ideological” narcissism, but ALL of it is rooted in narcissism, & sociopathy ( induced ) or psychopathy ( intrinsic brain-defect of deficient/zero empathy ), to boot.
Therefore anyone wanting to root-out genociding, has to root-out narcissism, genociding’s origin…
That change-in-perspective means differentiating between the symptoms, vs the origin/cause, & if the cause is narcissism, which we ALL ( all demographies, all cultures, all languages, all populations ) have in us, & then have our culture intentionally & systematically amplify…
… that makes things much more impersonal, more systemic, more civilization-scale-correction is required …
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