That’s sort of the joke. We are living in the IRL equivalent of people complaining Communism is OP in Victoria 3.
“What do you mean you’re leveraging a highly efficient network of state owned enterprises to obtain materials and utilities nearly at-cost?! That’s cheating!!!”
China has ten highly productive and innovative EV companies in a bloody knuckled price war because it’s state government makes starting and growing auto plants artificially cheap and easy.
The problem is China subsidizing their cars to suffocate the European manufacturers. When all the European manufactures are closed or sold to China, you’ll see the real prices.
Yes. They’re subsidizing so hard that the EVs are dirt-cheap HERE. You know, all those companies running at a loss to sell … domestically … while somehow … innovating.
Compassionate fucking Buddha this endless whining about “subsidies” gets tiresome after a while. Grow the fuck up you idiots and leave the kiddie pool.
The subsidies aren’t special at all compared to US and EU ones, and they’re apparently going to be phased out over the next 5 years. This supposed evil scheme just doesn’t seem to exist; the truth of the matter is that China just makes better and cheaper cars.
Why wouldn’t they?
After decades of being the west’s factory they’d be stupid not to learn.
And better is just upping the QA more than their western customers (who want the cheapest possible 'cos line must go up).
Better is a whole lot more than “upping the QA”. The cars here are genuinely innovative and, more importantly, the logistical and fabrication techniques are innovative.
One of the major reasons the big name Chinese EVs are cheaper than their roughly equivalent western counterparts is because the companies are vertical, not horizontal, in their supply chain.
The funny thing is the “True” Americans think a capitalism free market is absolute peak. They say well if it was a TRUE capitalism free market it would be perfect. Its because of the state we have issues! No you idiot, its because of billionaires which capitalism by design creates.
They say this while using government to prevent import of superior vehicles, just like they did for Japan in the 90s (chicken tax anyone?)
Socialism for the rich. Rugged individual capitalism for the 99%.
One German politician warned car companies that they need to make affordable EV. They didn’t listen and still don’t.
Being an Asian having grown up in Europe, I can say that Westerners have a short term, profiteering mindset. We think too much if the earnings for the next quarter will keep the shareholders happy. There is no long term planning and vision. I find Western businesses afraid of leaving their initial core industry, even if that industry is going the way of the dodos like fossil fuel cars.
I can’t exactly assess Chinese industries much, but Japanese businesses are excellent and unafraid with diversifying away from their initial offerings, and reaching out to a completely separate field. Nintendo was a card manufacturing company but is now a videogame titan. Fujifilm went from photo and film to biotechnology. Sony just recently eked out to finance and investing. Western companies don’t really do this, but instead waste money by fighting tooth and nail to keep dying businesses alive. Western companies are obsessed with making money now, while East Asian companies prioritise existence.
Nintendo was a card manufacturing company but is now a videogame titan. Fujifilm went from photo and film to biotechnology. Sony just recently eked out to finance and investing
Hitachi makes consumer electronics and heavy industrial construction machinery.
But somehow Ford can only make F150s and Mustangs any more…
And they miss obvious things too. How did Sears, a company that became famous and hide by offering magazines to show the cost of their goods to everyone before that was a thing, lose to an online bookstore? How did a video rental place (Blockbuster) not see the obvious benefit of mailing DVDs and then later internet streaming and get beat by a no name company like netflix?
Probably exactly as you say. It would have cost a year or two of missed quarterly earnings as they entered new markets, so they missed the opportunities entirely.
That one baffles me. They were doing catalog based mail order since the start of their business.
They should have been in the perfect position to compete with what Amazon has become. They already had all the infrastructure in place. All they needed was a decent website version of their existing catalog with a simple ordering method, and they utterly failed at that.
They had online ordering years before amazon was even a thought, but the high ups canned it saying that the internet was just a passing fad. They put themselfs out of business while saying they knew better then the customer the whole while.
Like most successful companies of the past, they were bought by a hedge fund or real estate fund and milked for any cash before assets were disposed. There are plenty more big name companies about to die because their business is no longer the product they made, it is only return for shareholder.
The Zaibatsu model has different incentives, particularly when they’re jockeying for position with American internationals on their own turf.
They’re very good at undercutting American industry. But I’d consider the Japanese cartel model flawed in other ways - miserable places to actually work for, agonizingly patriarchal, debilitating drinking/drug culture, zero work life balance, and the pay is shit.
That is true. But I mean branching out is something that Western companies should not be afraid of. EV and renewables are no brainers; but legacy firms in the fossil fuel industries are spending millions to prevent change and would rather see the world burn.
Although, to several Western company’s credit, they do branch out. Many European energy utilities have mostly diversified away from fossil fuels. The state-backed Danish company, Orsted, completely got rid of their fossil fuel mix, and transitioned 100% to renewable. But Trump cancelling their projects in US East Coast ruined their short term profitability. In any case, Orsted is firm with their full transition to renewable energy.
EV and renewables are no brainers; but legacy firms in the fossil fuel industries are spending millions to prevent change and would rather see the world burn.
When you see reports come out from fossil fuel companies, they quite literally describe “$X trillion of hydrocarbons in the ground”.
Many European energy utilities have mostly diversified away from fossil fuels.
Europe only really has the Baltic as a reserve. They’ve been cut off from much of the Middle East by decades of war.
So, unlike the US, which has become an oil exporter for the last twenty years, Europeans either went woke or went broke.
Well. In Germany we say “Der Markt regelt das”. Translated: economy speaks for itself. <- Ironically spoken
Like it or Not. China made it. They will also flood Europe/EU soon. I’m not mad, when they can, they should. This is our beloved capitalism.
One German politician warned car companies that they need to make affordable EV. They didn’t listen and still don’t.
Edit: Added “<- Ironically spoken” to first sentence to make clear how I was meaning it.
That’s sort of the joke. We are living in the IRL equivalent of people complaining Communism is OP in Victoria 3.
“What do you mean you’re leveraging a highly efficient network of state owned enterprises to obtain materials and utilities nearly at-cost?! That’s cheating!!!”
China has ten highly productive and innovative EV companies in a bloody knuckled price war because it’s state government makes starting and growing auto plants artificially cheap and easy.
The problem is China subsidizing their cars to suffocate the European manufacturers. When all the European manufactures are closed or sold to China, you’ll see the real prices.
EDIT: Also, soon? They are already here.
Yes. They’re subsidizing so hard that the EVs are dirt-cheap HERE. You know, all those companies running at a loss to sell … domestically … while somehow … innovating.
Compassionate fucking Buddha this endless whining about “subsidies” gets tiresome after a while. Grow the fuck up you idiots and leave the kiddie pool.
The subsidies aren’t special at all compared to US and EU ones, and they’re apparently going to be phased out over the next 5 years. This supposed evil scheme just doesn’t seem to exist; the truth of the matter is that China just makes better and cheaper cars.
Why wouldn’t they?
After decades of being the west’s factory they’d be stupid not to learn.
And better is just upping the QA more than their western customers (who want the cheapest possible 'cos line must go up).
Better is a whole lot more than “upping the QA”. The cars here are genuinely innovative and, more importantly, the logistical and fabrication techniques are innovative.
One of the major reasons the big name Chinese EVs are cheaper than their roughly equivalent western counterparts is because the companies are vertical, not horizontal, in their supply chain.
The funny thing is the “True” Americans think a capitalism free market is absolute peak. They say well if it was a TRUE capitalism free market it would be perfect. Its because of the state we have issues! No you idiot, its because of billionaires which capitalism by design creates.
They say this while using government to prevent import of superior vehicles, just like they did for Japan in the 90s (chicken tax anyone?)
Socialism for the rich. Rugged individual capitalism for the 99%.
This is amazing
Being an Asian having grown up in Europe, I can say that Westerners have a short term, profiteering mindset. We think too much if the earnings for the next quarter will keep the shareholders happy. There is no long term planning and vision. I find Western businesses afraid of leaving their initial core industry, even if that industry is going the way of the dodos like fossil fuel cars.
I can’t exactly assess Chinese industries much, but Japanese businesses are excellent and unafraid with diversifying away from their initial offerings, and reaching out to a completely separate field. Nintendo was a card manufacturing company but is now a videogame titan. Fujifilm went from photo and film to biotechnology. Sony just recently eked out to finance and investing. Western companies don’t really do this, but instead waste money by fighting tooth and nail to keep dying businesses alive. Western companies are obsessed with making money now, while East Asian companies prioritise existence.
That We is pulling a lot of weight and i’d mostly translate it as C-suits and management.
Hitachi makes consumer electronics and heavy industrial construction machinery.
But somehow Ford can only make F150s and Mustangs any more…
And they miss obvious things too. How did Sears, a company that became famous and hide by offering magazines to show the cost of their goods to everyone before that was a thing, lose to an online bookstore? How did a video rental place (Blockbuster) not see the obvious benefit of mailing DVDs and then later internet streaming and get beat by a no name company like netflix?
Probably exactly as you say. It would have cost a year or two of missed quarterly earnings as they entered new markets, so they missed the opportunities entirely.
That one baffles me. They were doing catalog based mail order since the start of their business.
They should have been in the perfect position to compete with what Amazon has become. They already had all the infrastructure in place. All they needed was a decent website version of their existing catalog with a simple ordering method, and they utterly failed at that.
They had online ordering years before amazon was even a thought, but the high ups canned it saying that the internet was just a passing fad. They put themselfs out of business while saying they knew better then the customer the whole while.
Like most successful companies of the past, they were bought by a hedge fund or real estate fund and milked for any cash before assets were disposed. There are plenty more big name companies about to die because their business is no longer the product they made, it is only return for shareholder.
The Zaibatsu model has different incentives, particularly when they’re jockeying for position with American internationals on their own turf.
They’re very good at undercutting American industry. But I’d consider the Japanese cartel model flawed in other ways - miserable places to actually work for, agonizingly patriarchal, debilitating drinking/drug culture, zero work life balance, and the pay is shit.
That is true. But I mean branching out is something that Western companies should not be afraid of. EV and renewables are no brainers; but legacy firms in the fossil fuel industries are spending millions to prevent change and would rather see the world burn.
Although, to several Western company’s credit, they do branch out. Many European energy utilities have mostly diversified away from fossil fuels. The state-backed Danish company, Orsted, completely got rid of their fossil fuel mix, and transitioned 100% to renewable. But Trump cancelling their projects in US East Coast ruined their short term profitability. In any case, Orsted is firm with their full transition to renewable energy.
When you see reports come out from fossil fuel companies, they quite literally describe “$X trillion of hydrocarbons in the ground”.
Europe only really has the Baltic as a reserve. They’ve been cut off from much of the Middle East by decades of war.
So, unlike the US, which has become an oil exporter for the last twenty years, Europeans either went woke or went broke.
Not a fan of this sentence. Market doesn’t care about human sensitivities, not one bit.
Which one exactly?
Der Markt regelt das. No it doesn’t. Not without enforced regulation.