China is indeed authoritarian, rich people cannot shape society however they want in China.
I just gotta pop in and say: thank you, comrades, for absolutely making my morning by dunking on some capitalists’ useful idiots.
I don’t know what it is about this post in particular, but the threadiverse isn’t sending its best 🤷
Edit to add: Some of them were so angry that they broke out their alt accounts to downvote some more.
I think some of the Reddit refuges honestly think Reddit sucks because Spez Man Bad. There’s no analysis of what creates Reddits and Spezes, and therefore they don’t recognize who made this platform and why.
I have to believe ultimately some of these people will come around, so that’s good at least.
Many do come around, Lemmy is quite good at radicalizing and educating in my experience.
The Chapotraphouse subreddit was radicalizing a lot of redditors when it was repeatedly hitting the front page of reddit fairly regularly and exposing people to counter-ideologies to liberalism that they never would have seen otherwise. Which is the reason why it (and then a slew of other popular lefty subs) had to be banned*. Despite all the lib-brained nonsense we have to constantly correct on this platform (the fediverse), there are an untold number of lurkers reading these discussions who are getting to see what actual leftist thought looks like when the narrow guardrails on the dominant narrative get removed. That exposure, especially when combined with witnessing the rapid intensifying of contradictions in their irl experiences, is enough to radicalize any thinking, genuinely open person. Lemmy being one of the few spaces on the internet where these things aren’t hidden or removed on sight absolutely plays a role in a lot of users’ leftward political evolution.
*It’s also why the fed instances like .world and piefed preemptively defederate, block, and continuously slander and demonize all of the leftist instances. They are literally trying to mitigate the spread of leftism that is inevitable when exposure to thought that’s outside the dominant ideology has a chance to get seen and voiced.
Very well said! Far better than I did, haha. I comment a lot on the Lemmy.ml side of things, and have gotten lurkers thanking me in DMs from time to time so I can absolutely back uo what you’re saying. I also just like using Hex to relax, when I don’t want to argue, haha.
Anytime comrade 🫡
Responding to a federated comment because I don’t have a .ml account:
Okay, but we are talking about a country where you aren’t allowed to form a political party that opposes the CCP, right?
There are eight other parties in the People’s Republic of China other than the *CPC
China has noodles though.
Delicious noodles!
Freedom with the most people in prison
They’re not always in prison, sometimes we let them do their forced labor outside.
Agreed, the US prison system is legalized form of slavery
Libs be like “this is a totally organic movement with broad local support”
Take a moment to imagine the absolutely demonic levels of McCarthyism that would be unleashed if it was discovered that BLM or the Green Party were headquartered in Beijing.
Don’t forget they also love Israel. Xinjiang avoided the fate of Gaza and all the people complaining about China being “heavy handed” there should just shut up.
Poor analogy. The US kills muslim people like they were rats. The secretary of offense is covered in tattoos glorifying the Medieval crusades and wrote a book titled “American Crusade” explaining the US is in a “holy war” agains muslims and China.
So “East Turkestan government in exile” is headquartered in the capital of the empire that is is in a bloodthirsthy fanatical war against muslims. This empire also has “must destroy China” as its foreign policy absolute priority.
Therefore, the corret analogy would be a separatist Jewish movement that wanted to take away a critical part of the USSR. And it is funded and headquartered in Nazi Germany. Who would believe them? The same people who believe the US is motivated by love of Muslims and only reluctantly funds a separatist movement to take away a critical part of China.
Yes, both countries have serious problems. At least Americans can discuss theirs openly.
At least Americans can discuss theirs openly.
Lol have you seen what’s been happening to pro Palestine protestors? BLM protestors? Anti Trump protestors? Julian Assange? Edward Snowden?
So do Chinese citizens, though. The state exerts control over private media and the speech of wealthy capitalists, but there’s broad diversity in political thought and discussion.
Really? So Chinese citizens can go out and publish an article about why they believe Xi Jinping is actually betraying socialist ideals?
Some have. They’d be wrong, so it’s not super common, but it’s possible, assuming they aren’t a wealthy capitalist or something.
The freedom to shout into the void and have none of your concerns addressed.
Not to mention the fact that China has far more open discourse than the US and its media organs / capitalist controlled platforms allow.
I’ll take “things foreigners say when they’ve never been to China” for 500 Alex
I’ll take “sexpat that’s been to China, never left his bubble and is a China expert now” for 500 alex
Never claimed to be any kind of China expert but it’s absurd to claim “much more open discourse” if you’ve spent any appreciable amount of time in the countries being discussed. You can literally just walk + talk in public and see the difference.
Like all these asserted freedoms it just magically happens better and free’er but you definitely can’t verify it because “media”. The open political discourse I see and hear in major EU/US cities pales in comparison to the uh… hidden… open discourse in T1/T2 Chinese cities? Definitely heard some first/second hand political discourse but it was never, ever, ever a public forum.
By all means, give me evidence to the contrary. Maybe I just keep catching China with a bad case of the Mondays. Have you been? Can you point to any discourse on domestic politics? Where is the asserted diversity of opinion on hotbed issues? Can you show me any strong opposition to the party line on a public stage?
I guess you’ve never been on weibo westoid
I have! Have you been on it in China? Have you contrasted the foreign feed to a citizen’s? Have you seen the coordinated response to genuine spreading political discontent vs mundane petty scandals? Because it kinda sounds like you haven’t if you think that’s a killer response.
I have! And I have my Chinese friends feed too. Inside and outside of china. There’s definitely differences, but that’s how algorithms work
Have you seen the coordinated response to genuine spreading political disconten
Yes i have seen it. They solve things pretty fast e.g. COVID lockdowns when minor protests broke out, petit bourgeois real estate protests, etc. doesn’t look like you pay attention to things like that
Just don’t demand or try to enact real lasting change
You are free to protest as long as we can tuck you in the corner and ignore you
You’re free to discuss anything you want as long as it doesn’t actually threaten the status quo in any way lol
Tell that to Malcolm X, MLK, or Fred Hampton
And it’s not like those were one-offs, COINTELPRO was crazy in scope and did massive damage beyond just the murders.
It’s not like that’s all in the past either, just look at how the Palestine protests were handled as well as the Floyd protests.
Chinese average citizens can freely discuss what they want, the “disappearing” is just western propa
I’ve spent some time in Shanghai and that was not my experience there.
Cool story
both are. have fun fighting eachother in the mud.
All states are authoritarian, in that they are instruments by which one class oppresses the others. What this doesn’t say anything about alone, though, is which class is in power. In the US Empire, the capitalists are in power, and use the authority of the state to crush workers when workers rise up. In the PRC, the working class is in power, and the state keeps capitalists in check and appropriates their capital gradually.
The only way out of authoritarian control by any class is to get rid of classes entirely, which requires full collectivization of production. China is actively building towards that, the US Empire is opposing it. Until we get to a classless society, it’s better for the working class to be in charge.
In other words, class struggle will continue to exist even after the proletariat takes control. All of the tensions from class struggle continue to exist, only they are resolved in favor of the working class. This is what “authoritarianism” looks like, class conflict expressed in state response.
“the working class” meaning the (one) party tho, lol.
Yes. Democracy isn’t about choosing between parties, but having substantive input on direction that results in the will of the people being carried out. This is true of China, policy is typically driven from the bottom-up, a process called “whole process people’s democracy.” This is expressed, as an example, through Five Year Plans that are the result of mass polling and suggestions among the populace. The CPC has over 100 million members in a country of 1.4 billion.
The state isn’t a class in and of itself, it can only serve as representative of a class. In the PRC, that class is the working class. The communists beat the nationalists in the Chinese Civil War, and from that point on the working class has been in control.
Fun fact: It’s actually possible for two countries to both be authoritarian!
The US killed a million innocent people in Iraq just a few years ago, and is *currently * drone bombing several countries in ME and north africa, and is currently supporting the apartheid state of israel with billions of dollars in military aid.
The PRC has not been in a war since its skirmish with Vietnam in 1979.
The US has a network of > 800 military bases across the globe, and has been involved in regime change in nearly every country.
Which one is authoritarian?
Look up the definition of authoritarianism. Bombing other countries is not the defining feature of an authoritarian government.
You might be interested in a book by Lenin titled: “Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism”.
That’s cool and all but still irrelevant to the original point. You can be authoritarian to your own citizens domestically without invading other nations.
The US is both imperialist and authoritarian.
“They can both be authoritarian”
“WELL USA INVADED IRAQ”
Lmao
Uighurs
Tibet
Supporting Russia in Ukraine
- https://dessalines.github.io/essays/socialism_faq.html#whats-going-on-with-the-uyghurs
- https://redsails.org/friendly-feudalism/
- https://historicly.substack.com/p/tibet-china-and-the-violent-reaction
- https://stalinsmoustache.org/2018/09/19/maos-liberation-of-tibet/
- http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/peace-and-prosperity/2015/february/02/obama-admits-us-role-in-ukraine-overthrow/
Ya and that’s why they don’t let tourists into Tibet without a guide.
Next you’re going to tell me Putin isn’t the aggressor.
Except one country is authoritarian and lying about the authoritarianism of China
China?
Except one country is authoritarian and lying about the authoritarianism of China
At least “you have right to remain silent” :)
What the fuck does this even mean lmao y’all scraping the bottom of the barrel so hard it’s now a tube
They’re just throwing phrases out like right-wing think-tanks, and seeing what sticks.
This is your brain on black-and-white thinking
Nah dude, nobody talked about an in-between. China bad, and America going bad too. In his image op implies people think that because China bad, america cannot be lol. That’s stupid
Yall would be demonizing the Algerians or Vietnamese people fighting for their independence from France’s ruthless colonial rule as “authoritarian”, and “both sides bad”.
China? The US is currently more compeeting with North Corea respect freedom and human rights.
Why believe 1953 America about Korea?
Why believe 1965 America about Vietnam?
Why believe 1975 America about the USSR?
Why believe 1991 America about Iraq?
Why believe 2001 America about Iraq (again)?
Why believe 2003 America about Afghanistan?
Why believe 2014 America about Syria?
Why believe 2023 America about Palestine?
Why believe 2025 America about Korea?
Both are garbage. The US is just a bigger pile of garbage (for now).
Hi, CIA
