Ah, yes, the “punishment is pointless” argument. Look, no one is arguing against more rehabilitation and safety in prisons, but criminal behavior must incur punishment, especially when it seriously harms other people. Why? Because when people (including the families of those people) are harmed, they expect justice, and part of that justice is knowing that the person responsible for harming you will suffer a consequence. This is not an eye for an eye; we make certain punishments are reasonable, proportionate, and not cruel. But when there’s no punishment, people do not feel justice has been done and some of those people will seek to punish criminals themselves (vigilante justice). Having a neutral third party implement justice is always better than when victims do it.
People who make this “punishment is pointless” argument never really think about the people criminals have made suffer. I know you think you do, but you don’t. You’re caught up in how bad the prison system is, and you’re right to be upset, but not to the exclusion of empathy for victims of crime.
Let me put it to you this way. Say you’re a parent, and you’re pushing your baby in a stroller, when a drunk driver hits you. You’re seriously injured, requiring surgery, months of rehab, and perhaps physical disabilities that will never go away. Your baby is dead. Now, that drunk driver isn’t sent to prison; instead, they’re put in a rehabilitation center, where they receive substance abuse counseling, therapy, etc. The accident makes them realize they have a problem, and within a year, his therapists are convinced he’s safe to be released back into society (with ongoing outpatient treatment and monitoring for five years after that). Their recovery is genuine and they do not reoffend. Within three years, they’re living a happy life. Meanwhile, three years on, you’re still dealing with chronic pain related to the accident and are still in grief counseling over the loss of your child. If you found out how the person who did that to you was doing, how would you feel?
People deserve to suffer for causing the suffering of others. Like it or not, it’s part of the unspoken social contract.
Yes, it is. That’s why we have punishments in the form of prison sentences. You harm other people? You get put in adult time out for a portion of your life.
You know what, the amount of energy you’re putting into defending your misguided position here tells me you’re not very interested in this conversation, and I don’t care to expend any more energy with someone like that. Suffice it to say, my previous statement still stands: people who hold your position have more empathy for criminals than their victims. I’m glad I don’t live in a world where we let criminals off with a slap on the wrist and just tell their victims that punishing them would be cruel and pointless.
Ah, yes, the “punishment is pointless” argument. Look, no one is arguing against more rehabilitation and safety in prisons, but criminal behavior must incur punishment, especially when it seriously harms other people. Why? Because when people (including the families of those people) are harmed, they expect justice, and part of that justice is knowing that the person responsible for harming you will suffer a consequence. This is not an eye for an eye; we make certain punishments are reasonable, proportionate, and not cruel. But when there’s no punishment, people do not feel justice has been done and some of those people will seek to punish criminals themselves (vigilante justice). Having a neutral third party implement justice is always better than when victims do it.
People who make this “punishment is pointless” argument never really think about the people criminals have made suffer. I know you think you do, but you don’t. You’re caught up in how bad the prison system is, and you’re right to be upset, but not to the exclusion of empathy for victims of crime.
Let me put it to you this way. Say you’re a parent, and you’re pushing your baby in a stroller, when a drunk driver hits you. You’re seriously injured, requiring surgery, months of rehab, and perhaps physical disabilities that will never go away. Your baby is dead. Now, that drunk driver isn’t sent to prison; instead, they’re put in a rehabilitation center, where they receive substance abuse counseling, therapy, etc. The accident makes them realize they have a problem, and within a year, his therapists are convinced he’s safe to be released back into society (with ongoing outpatient treatment and monitoring for five years after that). Their recovery is genuine and they do not reoffend. Within three years, they’re living a happy life. Meanwhile, three years on, you’re still dealing with chronic pain related to the accident and are still in grief counseling over the loss of your child. If you found out how the person who did that to you was doing, how would you feel?
People deserve to suffer for causing the suffering of others. Like it or not, it’s part of the unspoken social contract.
this isn’t how our society operates anyway
Yes, it is. That’s why we have punishments in the form of prison sentences. You harm other people? You get put in adult time out for a portion of your life.
surely you don’t really believe everyone who causes suffering of others sees any consequences
Not always, no. Not everyone feels guilty when they harm others, and even if they do, that’s not nearly enough of a punishment to do justice.
many people are rewarded after causing harm. your description of society is just a fiction
eye for an eye is proportional
But it’s cruel, which is why we don’t do it that way.
locking people in cages is cruel
No, it’s really not.
it’s literally a form of torture.
You know what, the amount of energy you’re putting into defending your misguided position here tells me you’re not very interested in this conversation, and I don’t care to expend any more energy with someone like that. Suffice it to say, my previous statement still stands: people who hold your position have more empathy for criminals than their victims. I’m glad I don’t live in a world where we let criminals off with a slap on the wrist and just tell their victims that punishing them would be cruel and pointless.
I will not be responding to you further.
repeating it doesn’t make it any more true
says who?
You really haven’t studied ethics at all, have you? There’s tons of philosophical literature about this stuff. Do some research.
I have.
Then you should already know the answer to your previous question.
yeah: only bad people
uh… it’s good that people do better for themselves and start making better decisions
How would you feel? Name the feeling.
I can’t know
Lame answer.
it’s true