I am 100% on board with hating Data Centres. But for those who don’t know: a unevenly distributed variable load on the grid (EV charging) is a much bigger challenge than a localised somewhat constant load on the grid (Data Centres).
Still: should we build Data Centres with the power use comparable to that of small countries? Fuck no.
A typical level 2 charger is 50a@240v, similar to an electric range that many people have.
It’s also a single digit percentage increase in a home’s typical use
a full transition will take two decades - surely we can adjust the grid as needed over two decades
I read an estimate that full electrification, not just EVs, was projected to increase electrical load 1%/year …… I don’t remember the data center equivalent but it was several times that
And just so we’re really on the same page, just because something is a challenge doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing or shouldn’t be done.
It’s not like we didn’t have the same problems with balancing the grid when people started installing electric ovens or Aircon or dishwashers or washing machines or pretty much any other heavy appliance you can think of.
In fact, did you know that if you were to install Solar and export production to the grid, that can cause the same problems? A lot of people seem to think that it’s about how much power the grid can produce alone but there’s a reason it’s referred to as a “balance”, too much input causes problems as well. Utilities need to plan energy production in advance to cope with an already variable demand, there are people who’s entire job is predicting spikes and drops on consumption so they can figure out if they need to spin up or shut down entire power plants - both of which are expensive to do and any mistake will mean brownouts or worse, a collapsed grid. This isn’t a new thing, it has been this way for decades.
If anything, EVs and EV chargers can be made a lot smarter than the above to actually help balance the grid.
My electric provider gives me cheap electric and a discount on my bill if I let them decide when the car charges (via controlling the car charger). I just tell them when I need the car to be fully charged by and they handle the scheduling. Do I care if the car charges at 2am instead of 9pm if it’s fully charged by 7am either way? Absolutely not.
Better yet, V2X is starting to become a thing - this enables bi-directional charging for the EV. In other words, the EV itself actually helps balance the grid rather than just be a pure drag on it.
In the modern age, overall grid capacity is only a small part of the problem, what we need is a smarter grid. A smarter grid will cope with spikes in demand without forward planning and being cheaper overall for everyone.
EVs are a highly modifyable variable load, as the vast majority personal vehicles sit idle nearly the whole day. When a fraction of those can be directed to charge based on grid needs, it becomes a net-asset for stability.
In Ontario, just the half-assed time-of-use pricing and small numbers of EVs in the fleet are likely contributing to the more more stable load over night. They used to have so much Nuclear surplus they were selling to NYC overnight at negative pricing on a regular basis.
My smart thermostat already has a capability of letting the power company make adjustments as needed to stabilize the grid. Is it really so hard to imagine the same functionality for EV charging?
Sometimes override the thermostat, because my house needs to be comfortable for occupants. But I can plug in my EV when I get home, and it has 12 hours to charge. On a typical day it might need two hours and I have no reason to care as long as it completes by morning
Also, home batteries and battery storage at public chargers can dampen the “shock” that the grid might face since it’ll deliver power from the local storage that will then recharge at a constant rate from the grid
Not to mention, I feel like this argument is based on everyone switching to EVs overnight. This could never happen unless someone has a magic lamp with genie, but I would hope the genie would address the power grid issues as part of the wish. Now a monkey’s paw, on the other hand…
I am 100% on board with hating Data Centres. But for those who don’t know: a unevenly distributed variable load on the grid (EV charging) is a much bigger challenge than a localised somewhat constant load on the grid (Data Centres).
Still: should we build Data Centres with the power use comparable to that of small countries? Fuck no.
EV charging is also not that big
I read an estimate that full electrification, not just EVs, was projected to increase electrical load 1%/year …… I don’t remember the data center equivalent but it was several times that
Yes BUT if everyone changed today the grid would break. So we can’t change!
/s
And just so we’re really on the same page, just because something is a challenge doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing or shouldn’t be done.
It’s not like we didn’t have the same problems with balancing the grid when people started installing electric ovens or Aircon or dishwashers or washing machines or pretty much any other heavy appliance you can think of.
In fact, did you know that if you were to install Solar and export production to the grid, that can cause the same problems? A lot of people seem to think that it’s about how much power the grid can produce alone but there’s a reason it’s referred to as a “balance”, too much input causes problems as well. Utilities need to plan energy production in advance to cope with an already variable demand, there are people who’s entire job is predicting spikes and drops on consumption so they can figure out if they need to spin up or shut down entire power plants - both of which are expensive to do and any mistake will mean brownouts or worse, a collapsed grid. This isn’t a new thing, it has been this way for decades.
If anything, EVs and EV chargers can be made a lot smarter than the above to actually help balance the grid.
My electric provider gives me cheap electric and a discount on my bill if I let them decide when the car charges (via controlling the car charger). I just tell them when I need the car to be fully charged by and they handle the scheduling. Do I care if the car charges at 2am instead of 9pm if it’s fully charged by 7am either way? Absolutely not.
Better yet, V2X is starting to become a thing - this enables bi-directional charging for the EV. In other words, the EV itself actually helps balance the grid rather than just be a pure drag on it.
In the modern age, overall grid capacity is only a small part of the problem, what we need is a smarter grid. A smarter grid will cope with spikes in demand without forward planning and being cheaper overall for everyone.
EVs are a highly modifyable variable load, as the vast majority personal vehicles sit idle nearly the whole day. When a fraction of those can be directed to charge based on grid needs, it becomes a net-asset for stability.
In Ontario, just the half-assed time-of-use pricing and small numbers of EVs in the fleet are likely contributing to the more more stable load over night. They used to have so much Nuclear surplus they were selling to NYC overnight at negative pricing on a regular basis.
My smart thermostat already has a capability of letting the power company make adjustments as needed to stabilize the grid. Is it really so hard to imagine the same functionality for EV charging?
Sometimes override the thermostat, because my house needs to be comfortable for occupants. But I can plug in my EV when I get home, and it has 12 hours to charge. On a typical day it might need two hours and I have no reason to care as long as it completes by morning
Also, home batteries and battery storage at public chargers can dampen the “shock” that the grid might face since it’ll deliver power from the local storage that will then recharge at a constant rate from the grid
Not to mention, I feel like this argument is based on everyone switching to EVs overnight. This could never happen unless someone has a magic lamp with genie, but I would hope the genie would address the power grid issues as part of the wish. Now a monkey’s paw, on the other hand…