I wonder, if neurodiversity plays any role. As far as I know, autistic people have been reported to have a higher percentage of difference in gender presentation, and the number of autistic amab have traditionally been higher. Though maybe that is now changing, as the diagnostic criteria has started to shift towards recognizing the traits more commonly showing in afab people… I have not read any recent studies about it, though.

That is good to know, too!

No, they are not usually written, except people sometimes doing it casually in social media, but because our lettering system is almost fully phonetic, it is very easy to write and read them if you just speak finnish. Also if you are native speaker, you kind of learn the certain fluidity in the core of the language, so you can pretty much understand the words, even if they vary a lot (except people from Rauma, nobody understands them).

I really thought it would have been cracked by AI, because it can translate finnish pretty accurately (not always…) and if you can do that, dialects aren’t hard at all, but I was surprised to find that it still cannot! I am assuming it really is, just because there are not enough written sources to teach from.

//Oh, and as a summary my main points were, that AI most definitely has not “solved” learning and translating languages, as it yet cannot even translate a lot of things, and I guess also, that you cannot trust AI translations, if the text translated is some obscure language you do not know. They can sound convincing and form coherent sentences, but the meaning can be fully incorrect.

I was just at a networking/research technology conference in Helsinki (TNC26) where the topic of nordic languages— especially minority ones—being under-represented by current automated transcription/translation tools came up in one of the side talks I attended. There’s some effort by various European NRENs and universities to train models on these languages so those tools can be more widely available to students, academics, and the public. The talk was about “Scribe” by SUNET (Swedish Research Network) hosting whisper models for this purpose.

That should be especially good for things like the multiple sapmi languages! At least in finnish you can already write in the proper “book language” and get pretty accurate translations, even though the dialects still escape that.

Also, Finnish is fucking hard lol. I can usually pick up a bit of language wherever I travel, basic phrases usually. But DAMN trying to nail the epiglottal sounds of even “Hyvää yötä” threw me!

It is usually especially hard to learn for indo-european speakers, so it is not just you struggling! Haha :)

Actually lets break it down, so it is clearer what the accuracy was. I will not talk about the mistranslations, though.

• I have come to the same conclusion as the previous poster. DeepL identifies correctly I agree with them, but fails to pick up the nuance of it. Pretty good.

• I am indirectly taking part in mocking techbros for thinking AI has solved language learning. This is referencing the previous post, so DeepL could not know that without context. It somewhat picks up I am saying AI-stuff has not solved anything.

• It correctly picks up I learned something about language yesterday and that someone fails at it, but it fails to identify I am talking specifically about dialects and fails to clearly convey it is AI that fails. It translates correctly I mistakenly thought the previous thing was true.

• I am saying AI could not properly answer to talking in dialect, referencing indirectly I am talking in dialect in the message. DeepL picks up that I am saying something is failing, but does not convey anything else correctly.

• I’m telling Google was the worst at translating, and that I found that hilarious. DeepL fully fails to translate the meaning, but translates the word “shit” acceptably, and conveys correctly something is funny.

  So what was lost in translation?

• Talking in dialect, and AI failing to translate dialects properly - Core part of the message, so really bad, that it was about dialects, was not conveyed.

• I am laughing at Googles translation abilities being the worst - Fails to convey this completely. Not a core part of the message, but still relatively important information.

• Nuance about thinking before agreeing - Leaving that out does not matter in casual conversation. If this was translation for a more “proper” thing, this could be bad though.

• Mocking techbros - This required context that wasn’t offered.

Oh, that is good to know. Here organic includes the highest standards for chicken wellfare, since they have to be let out etc., compared to just freerange that has tiny floorspace requirements, inside.

Yes.

Yeah I’ve been thinking the same. The greatest thing about these is that those algorithms and whatnot haven’t really even solved anything. Just yesterday I learned that fake/artificial-smarts can’t even translate dialects correctly, even though I thought they could. If you talk something like this for a bit they weren’t really able to answer that! Google especially was giving out complete shit, but it was pretty funny to read and laugh.

If it was unclear, the point is: pick a random finn from the street and they can translate that pretty much from word to word, even if they are from a complete different dialect speaking area, whereas even at best AI could give you only something towards it. I can only use obscure things, like this as an example, as I do not speak that many other languages, but if the languages do not have much written record online, they are not going to be properly translatable. We are still surprisingly far from not needing human translators.

//And yes, Google was hilariously shit. I managed to make couple normal sentences, without even trying, that it just gave up completely and did not translate at all, only removed some random letters.

I absolutely despise morons who smugly pronounce language learning and translation work “solved”

Juu sammoo miäkkii uonny uatelna. Kaekkee hienoenta tämmöttiissä uonku eip nuo alakoritmit ja semmottet oekkeest uo mittee ees ratkassukkaa. Miä eilispäevänä justiinsa opinni etteep tekoviksut ossoo ees kunnolla murutehia kientöö, vaek kyl miä nii luulinni juu. Tämmöttii kup vähäsennii huastelloopi ni eip hyö siihe oekkee mittee osannukkaa virikata! Kuukkels tuo etteenki se suols aenaki iha pelekköö paskoo, ol ihap hauskoo kyl lukkoo ja naaraa.

Yes, tankies, please pack your belongings right now, and move to your dreamy wonderland. It is great there! Travel today!

Dozen is likely just technically easier, since if you split it in half, you get 6, but if you split 10 half, you get 5. And only 5 is harder to package. I’ve seen 4 eggs sold as well, but 6 and 12 are probably close enough, around the numbers people reasonably need.

You should always buy the organic ones, even if they are so much more expensive. The conditions in which the chickens are kept, to produce the cheap eggs, is absolutely, inhumanely fucked up. You can see the difference in the yolk as well: the ones produced by chickens, that are fed better, and not kept in a way they cannot even move, are orange, while the ones by chickens kept and fed horribly, are yellow.

Northern dialects

Voe ku miä uompii kuulo iästä puoloo iha. Täs onnii aenakkii kolometta murrettakkii varmoo sekasinnii, kup uon monessa paekkoo asununna, jos miä pelekästee ommoo pitäjästä huastelisinnii nip miut pystyhys iha kartaltakkii osottammaa, ja emmiä ny semmottee ryhy.

Voe voe, essiä pien kuul minnuu suap loekattuu yhytääp tuommottiilla ininöellä, taes tuop aeka palajo sinnuu satutellakkii ku noepittee ilikeellä. Mut sie alloetkii huastelloo miullep nii rumastikkai ny, eh eip tästäkköö ennee oekee mittee taiakkaa tullakkoo. Kuulehha mie pistännii miu hupiva tähö viel, ja si siä voet miut esteepi vaekka kup noen pistöö siulla vihaks oekkee. Piäs siäkii hauskoo päevettä! :)

Miulla onniinna par tuntihiha ollunna jop iha mahottomma hauskoop, ku näetä kup etteeki Kuukkelille syöttellööpi, ni melekeet kaik männööp iha pisi vittuva. Miä laitannii tähäp ny kuulkoos mittee miä kirijottelinniip ja si mitteepä tuop Kuukkel tämmöttiistä huastelop.

I’ve already had great fun for a couple hours, since feeding these especially to Google, almost everything gets all fucked up. I’ll put what I was writing here, and then what Google says about that.

I’m happy to say that for a few hours it was even more fun, when you see that you can’t feed Kuukkeli, and all the noise is so fucking loud. I’m going to put this here and listen to you, not me, but you, not Kuukkeli, from this mess.

Voe mahoton ku tuo taespa männännii polosella ihannii tuntehin astikkai, antooks vua ku emmiä ny sinnuu loekata meanannu, kuha huastella tahhoi. Kuuloha, emmiä uskonnakkaa kui surukiasti tuop tekoviksu oekee näetä tämmöttii muruhejuttuloeta kienteleepi, paitti ny ku ommin silimin oekee toisti ku lähinnii testaalommaa eh eihä tuop ymmärräkkää hevovittuakkoo :)

you don’t seem to have a natural grasp of languages and communication the same way I do

Hey, you are seriously claiming that “I don’t see Al at all, I don’t think I’ll help you with my words.” is a somewhat working translation for “in these times of AI, not even speaking in dialect helps”, so please do excuse me, for not believing you to be very good at even reading comprehension, at this point :)

Miäp vähö kokkeeli ja taitoop ollakkii etteipuo tuommottet tekoviksut massiinat oekee ossoo muruteitap kientelläkkää. Suattap tuo johtuukki kueipuo hiriviästikä tämmöttii kirijoteltunna tälleelä tännö verekkoop :) Jos kukkoop koettap suome murutehia kientellä nii miä voekii huastoop ny etteenä oekee mitteep sua aekasikskoo, eh työ paremmii suattep jos kyssyytte iha vua jolotaa kaun savolaeseltap.

But now you’ve replied twice. That’s a pattern! They can track you now. Oh why, oh why didn’t you change your username…?!

Now that is just in bad faith, and goes into the “why bother, I have nothing to hide” territory.

It’s just somewhat wrong

No, the meaning of both sentences is completely wrong, and the only words translated correctly are “AI” and “help”.

So why not make a new user each and every time?

That is… that is what I am saying you should do? VPN, email-masking, new accounts at least once a year and deleting all history from older one, and never using the same usernames, is the bare minimum. That will not protect you from surveillance, or being found, but it will make it harder, for internet randoms especially. And if you have to have accounts with names and pictures, for work or something, always keep them completely separate from accounts you actually use for freetime, and stuff.

I don’t see Al at all, I don’t think I’ll help you with my words.

Very wrong translation though, so surprisingly that still works too.

For me personally, it is frankly more about paranoia towards other people. I am transgendered, so I have learned to always be vary, there are no pictures of me online. I do not have any social media accounts, outside relatively anonymous stuff like lemmy. And even here I would never give out an actual email, or any other personal details that can be easily tracked. I know that while you are on the internet, you cannot really escape the surveillance (except maybe on tor, but yes that is not so simple either), but that does not mean you should make things easier, for any random person, company or anything. I do not think it is good if anyone can read years worth of your personal comments.

Eik näe AI aekana mikkee, eiees muruteella puhummine autakkaa ennee juu

Taking care of yourself is very good, but just in case, for anyone reading this - watch out for the eating disorders lurking behind, they can take over quite stealthily. Choose a healthy BMI or weight number and stay at that, never under, that has been my defence against anorexia taking over quite succesfully. If you are thinking about how to be healthy constantly, also read up on orthorexia.