Just toying with the idea here. I am thinking about proposing in the next year and I never expected I would be in this position.
My sister was just proposed to and dude must have spent like 10 grand on the ring. I think she feels like he spent too much. It looks like the friggin thing weighs her whole hand down.
Also do you think it is misogynist to ask the lady’s dad for permission?
The concept of an expensive engagement ring is based on the realities of a different era, as is asking her dad for permission.
At a time when women couldn’t have bank accounts, their jewellery was their emergency savings. The engagement ring in particular was a way for a man to prove that he could financially provide for her, and for her to show to the world that she made a good financial match. This is why engagement rings have historically been very expensive status symbols.
Today, the engagement ring is about love, not status. So forget about what you “should” do and show her that you love her, by thinking about what she would appreciate most.
I wouldn’t ask her dad unless she is very traditional and extremely close to her dad i.e. only do this if you believe that she would like that and that he will say yes (and yes, it is very patriarchal).
What do you think she would value more - having you propose with a ring, or going shopping for a ring together? She will have to wear it, so making sure that she loves it is more important than the price.
Stick to what you can realistically afford, bearing in mind that weddings and honeymoons are expensive too. Might she prefer a less expensive ring and a nicer honeymoon?
3a) Definitely don’t overspend on a natural diamond. The value of natural diamonds in typical engagement ring sizes (< 1 carat) have fallen dramatically in the last 10-15 years, you can see a fun chart here: https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-prices/diamond-prices-chart/ (Ask me how I know 🙃)
Above all, remember that this is meant to be a fun and exciting time for both of you, so forget about what others expect and focus on what would make you the happiest in the long term.
By not at least informing the father though he risks creating a rift between them. You don’t need to ask for permission anymore, but asserting that you are planning on proposing is a respectable thing. Shows dad that you’re honorable and you’re not afraid to talk to him 1-1, and avoiding it can be seen as disrespectful. I agree that you don’t need to ask, but telling him that it’s your intention is very respectful. I found that it honors the parents while also sidestepping the whole patriarchal bit. My (now) very feminist wife respected it quite a bit.
I’ll admit though I was sweating through my shirt and probably sqeaked it out, and said something stupid like “I’m not asking because she wouldn’t want me to, but I’m here to tell you, that I am planning on, uh”, and then I finally spit it out, and he laughed and hugged me, we now have a great rapport
Yours is a lovely solution in a culture where asking is still common. As a feminist, I would suggest that this approach is expanded to inform both parents simultaneously though, not just the father.
That said, I stand by my viewpoint that OP’s partner’s wants are the most important consideration. Personally, unless my partner wanted advice or assistance from my parents related specifically to the proposal, I wouldn’t have expected my parents to know about the proposal before I did.
My dad knew this though, so he once told my partner during a family dinner that he approved of him 🤭 My brother nearly fell off his chair laughing and told my partner to run while he still could.
Also, my mom has zero poker face, so if he told her I would have immediately known something is up - so maybe don’t tell them too far in advance, either 🤣
Edit: reshuffled some wording, plus:
it also depends on the ages (and generational expectations) of OPs prospective in-laws. I don’t know how long ago your proposal was but mine was quite a while ago now.
So is marriage in general in most developed countries.
It’s romantic. Asking the dad for permission is performative but adds to the romance. If someone thinks spending big bucks on an engagement ring is romantic, then go for it. Getting married is an expensive affair anyway.
But yeah, don’t spend it on diamonds because they’re bullshit.
Getting married is effectively signing a communal property contract, which can still have significant legal and financial implications in the developed world. Not all developed countries have the same legal system.
Also, traditional is not the same as romantic. There is nothing romantic about asking the dad, she’s not property. Some traditions deserve to die.
Edit to add: also absolutely shell out on a ring if you want. Just be sure it’s actually what you want, not what you think you should do.
Pretty sure all countries in the EU let you do just that without getting married. You literally aquire exactly the same legal status as a married couple, without actually getting married. Which makes marriage completely obsolete and only performative and romantic.
That’s just your opinion. I think it actually is. Nobody is talking about property anymore. It’s just an expression of intentions these days and is mostly a bonding moment between the groom and her father. It’s actually kind of sweet and emotional.
I want to add an anecdote to this: my wife and I, before we got married, went to a gem panning place up in the mountains and found a Ruby, her birthstone. We found a jeweler who cuts raw gems and sets them into rings. We used that for her engagement ring, and it wasn’t more than $400.
Point is, to add to SorryImLate’s reply, you definitely don’t need something crazy expensive, especially if it’s unique or personal.