Just toying with the idea here. I am thinking about proposing in the next year and I never expected I would be in this position.
My sister was just proposed to and dude must have spent like 10 grand on the ring. I think she feels like he spent too much. It looks like the friggin thing weighs her whole hand down.
Also do you think it is misogynist to ask the lady’s dad for permission?
You must log in or register to comment.
The concept of an expensive engagement ring is based on the realities of a different era, as is asking her dad for permission.
At a time when women couldn’t have bank accounts, their jewellery was their emergency savings. The engagement ring in particular was a way for a man to prove that he could financially provide for her, and for her to show to the world that she made a good financial match. This is why engagement rings have historically been very expensive status symbols.
Today, the engagement ring is about love, not status. So forget about what you “should” do and show her that you love her, by thinking about what she would appreciate most.
-
I wouldn’t ask her dad unless she is very traditional and extremely close to her dad i.e. only do this if you believe that she would like that and that he will say yes (and yes, it is very patriarchal).
-
What do you think she would value more - having you propose with a ring, or going shopping for a ring together? She will have to wear it, so making sure that she loves it is more important than the price.
-
Stick to what you can realistically afford, bearing in mind that weddings and honeymoons are expensive too. Might she prefer a less expensive ring and a nicer honeymoon?
3a) Definitely don’t overspend on a natural diamond. The value of natural diamonds in typical engagement ring sizes (< 1 carat) have fallen dramatically in the last 10-15 years, you can see a fun chart here: https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-prices/diamond-prices-chart/ (Ask me how I know 🙃)
Above all, remember that this is meant to be a fun and exciting time for both of you, so forget about what others expect and focus on what would make you the happiest in the long term.
By not at least informing the father though he risks creating a rift between them. You don’t need to ask for permission anymore, but asserting that you are planning on proposing is a respectable thing. Shows dad that you’re honorable and you’re not afraid to talk to him 1-1, and avoiding it can be seen as disrespectful. I agree that you don’t need to ask, but telling him that it’s your intention is very respectful. I found that it honors the parents while also sidestepping the whole patriarchal bit. My (now) very feminist wife respected it quite a bit.
I’ll admit though I was sweating through my shirt and probably sqeaked it out, and said something stupid like “I’m not asking because she wouldn’t want me to, but I’m here to tell you, that I am planning on, uh”, and then I finally spit it out, and he laughed and hugged me, we now have a great rapport
Yours is a lovely solution in a culture where asking is still common. As a feminist, I would suggest that this approach is expanded to inform both parents simultaneously though, not just the father.
That said, I stand by my viewpoint that OP’s partner’s wants are the most important consideration. Personally, unless my partner wanted advice or assistance from my parents related specifically to the proposal, I wouldn’t have expected my parents to know about the proposal before I did.
My dad knew this though, so he once told my partner during a family dinner that he approved of him 🤭 My brother nearly fell off his chair laughing and told my partner to run while he still could.
Also, my mom has zero poker face, so if he told her I would have immediately known something is up - so maybe don’t tell them too far in advance, either 🤣
Edit: reshuffled some wording, plus:
it also depends on the ages (and generational expectations) of OPs prospective in-laws. I don’t know how long ago your proposal was but mine was quite a while ago now.
The concept of an expensive engagement ring is based on the realities of a different era, as is asking her dad for permission
So is marriage in general in most developed countries.
It’s romantic. Asking the dad for permission is performative but adds to the romance. If someone thinks spending big bucks on an engagement ring is romantic, then go for it. Getting married is an expensive affair anyway.
But yeah, don’t spend it on diamonds because they’re bullshit.
Getting married is effectively signing a communal property contract, which can still have significant legal and financial implications in the developed world. Not all developed countries have the same legal system.
Also, traditional is not the same as romantic. There is nothing romantic about asking the dad, she’s not property. Some traditions deserve to die.
Edit to add: also absolutely shell out on a ring if you want. Just be sure it’s actually what you want, not what you think you should do.
Getting married is effectively signing a communal property contract, which can still have significant legal and financial implications in the developed world.
Pretty sure all countries in the EU let you do just that without getting married. You literally aquire exactly the same legal status as a married couple, without actually getting married. Which makes marriage completely obsolete and only performative and romantic.
There is nothing romantic about asking the dad
That’s just your opinion. I think it actually is. Nobody is talking about property anymore. It’s just an expression of intentions these days and is mostly a bonding moment between the groom and her father. It’s actually kind of sweet and emotional.
I want to add an anecdote to this: my wife and I, before we got married, went to a gem panning place up in the mountains and found a Ruby, her birthstone. We found a jeweler who cuts raw gems and sets them into rings. We used that for her engagement ring, and it wasn’t more than $400.
Point is, to add to SorryImLate’s reply, you definitely don’t need something crazy expensive, especially if it’s unique or personal.
-
I associated with a guy online that turned a makeshift ring on a lathe at work to give to his girl as a place-holder for when he could afford a real ring. She loved it so much she told him not to buy one.
He was kind of a perfectionist and it actually looked pretty good, but as I recall there were no precious metals involved.
So, bottom line…what kind of person is she? Price isn’t important.
Whatever you do DON’T spend a year’s salary on a ring. That’s just jewelry store marketing talking.
My opinion as a pragmatist and a woman: an engagement shouldn’t be a surprise. The formality of the proposal itself can be a surprise, but just like a birthday party it should be something expected and at the very least loosely discussed with the person. Asking “what kind of proposals do you like?” and figuring out if they want something public or private, or in front of friends or something small is really important. What kind of engagement ring should go in this discussion. She might hate diamonds, she might love them, she might have a metal allergy, she might have a stone that means a lot to her, she might hate rings with stones at all because they catch on things. You don’t know until you ask, and by asking you’re showing her the respect and that you value her opinion.
You don’t know until you ask, and by asking you’re showing her the respect and that you value her opinion.
Exactly, don’t ask anyone to marry you if you don’t already know that the answer will be yes. Reality isn’t like the movies; a spontaneous marriage proposal isn’t romantic, it’s putting the recipient on the spot and forcing them to answer a huge question that they may not be ready to answer yet, and if they say no it’s likely to doom the relationship even if they may have said yes if properly consulted beforehand.
My wife and I had already discussed the possibility of marriage almost from the start of our relationship, to make sure that our expectations of where the relationship was going were aligned. Once we decided in earnest that we did want to spend our lives together, we discussed what she wanted the proposal to look like and what kind of a ring she wanted.
Why do you need an engagement ring? Can’t two people just get engaged without going into debt for a fucking rock?
If you aren’t sure of the ring, you may want to ask tbh. Some people want an expensive ring, others like my wife wanted to go shop with me for it after the proposal. I gave her an etsy amulet of Mara for the proposal then we did a modest ring later.
As for her dad, do it, but not to ask for permission, more to officially inform him and her mother. That’s an important distinction. I did this, my feminist wife respected it quite a bit, and her dad felt honored and respected.
Great answer.
I second that OP should ask about ring preference before buying anything. I did before I proposed, and was surprised to learn that she had very specific desires for her engagement ring.
My wife picked out a maybe $50 moissanite ring that everyone thinks is worth thousands
She also picked where she wanted me to propose to her
I believe this is the right answer if you want a flashy bling bling.
OP, look into moissanite it doesn’t come with the price tag and with the blood + slavery as the diamond.
I took my wife to a facility that was all about collaborative ring picking. It was no secret that I was going to propose; both she and I have always felt that the circumstances of the proposal could be a surprise, but the fact of and answer to the proposal shouldn’t be.
I ended up proposing to her while she was carrying a pile of my underwear. It wasn’t on purpose - I didn’t even notice until she had said yes - but she described it as “very us.”
With regards to budget, she and I discussed a range beforehand. We came up with a number that was nice but realistic for what we could afford at the time.
With regards to asking permission, I didn’t feel it necessary. I did technically discuss it with her dad beforehand, but mostly for the ceremony of the thing. I doubt he even remembers the conversation. It can be a nice gesture to do so - most good dads would probably like it and many women would probably enjoy the gesture - but I don’t think it’s needed.
Personally I feel the whole concept of the man proposing with a ring is outdated. The decision to get married was a joint decision between my wife and me. We talked about it, agreed we both wanted it and then decided together when we wanted to get married. There was no engagement ring and we didn’t spend a lot on our wedding rings either (I can’t remember how much, but it was relatively speaking very cheap). The wedding itself was also rather small and not that expensive (again, relatively). We had a lovely day and never regretted not spending more, even if we could have afforded to.
But getting married is one of these things where the right way is your way. Everyone wants something different and nobody can tell you what’s best for you and your partner.
An engagement shouldn’t be a surprise, but a proposal can be (depending on what the couple wants!). As in your advice on discussing and agreeing jointly on getting engaged is really good.
My partner and myself decided against rings altogether and did a smaller wedding as well. It was awesome and not too expensive.
Spend what you can afford. Diamonds aren’t that special, maybe consider a stone that means more to your partner.
I refused to ask my wife’s father for permission to marry her. She is not his property and tbh even if he had said no (he wouldn’t have) I would have asked her anyway.
Yeah my brother in law asked my dad and I wasn’t sure how to feel about it. He was already obviously a green light.
Spend what you can afford. Pay more attention to the style she likes than the cost.
If she says no because the ring wasn’t expensive enough, you dodged a bullet.
I think I spent 20 euros on a ring I thought was cute (and resizable, because I didn’t know her ring size), and we later bought wedding rings together.
I also called her father beforehand, but more like “Hey, I thought you’d like to know that I’m planning to do this”, and he was like “That’s awesome, have fun!”.
If I remember correctly, I spent around $400. At the time it was roughly 30% of a paycheck.
Also do you think it is misogynist to ask the lady’s dad for permission?
Misogynistic?
Not per se. I suppose it comes down to why you’re asking.
Needed?
No. Women make their own decisions.
Ask them. We paid like $20 for some plain tungsten rings and were quite happy.
I have been married for 20 years, after 9 years of being together. Engagement rings are not traditional where I live, but wedding rings are. We bought titanium rings for less than 100 euros each. No stones, just the metal. Titanium is way cooler than gold or platinum too. They make reconnaisance planes out of it!
Where are you from?
Sounds weird but I collect titanium objects. They are so good.
I have 500ml and 1000ml camping pots. A titanium frying pan. My favourite is my titanium bong. You can drive over it with a truck and it can be cleaned perfectly by throwing it into the coals of a campfire. I’ve broken so many glass bongs over the years and this one is indestructible and can be carried anywhere at just 100g.
Netherlands.
I have never seen titaniuw cookware. Is it any good in terms of frying? Do you season a titanium pan in the way you would with cast iron?
It’s not possible to season titanium. It is indestructible and soaks up nothing
No I wouldn’t say it’s very good for frying. I make pancakes on the trail in the pan with lots of olive oil (more than i would use at home, trying to get calories while long distance hiking)
I use the titanium pots for things like mac and cheese, beans and rice, instant potatoes, or even just tea/coffee
I have a jetboil nonstick pan that I still use more than the titanium honestly. I like to have pocket steaks on the first night of a hike
The main appeal to me with titanium is its weight and the fact that you can clean it by throwing it in the fire at the end of the night. In the morning you dump the ashes and it’s completely sanitized and clean.
Find a local lapidary society. Members will sell you a cut stone that is unique. Get it set by a manufacturing jeweller. The lapidarist I found gifted me a 1.75 carat topaz that he had fossicked and cut. Then it cost me $375 AUD to have it set. Wife loves it and it’s a one of a kind.
