China abandoned socialism because they use markets.
No, but because most money, gdp (3/4), companies and work (80%) etc is fully privately owned with no state ownership at all, because the workers rights are not improving (gig economy booming, retirement going up, vacation being 5 days per decade of work experience, no practical sick leave, the second employment system), because giant companies are slapped on the wrist for transgression and personal C-levels punishments for shit they do like Pinduoduo
Misleading. Retirement age is being raised gradually over 15 years, while flexible early retirement up to 3 years early remains, delayed retirement requires agreement, special early-retirement protections are retained for hazardous/special work, and older-worker protections are being strengthened. Also, raising retirement from 50 to 55 for women and 60 to 63 for men over a period of 15 years, while life expectancy continues to rise and early-retirement options remain, is not the anti-worker gotcha you seem to think it is.
vacation being 5 days per decade of work experience
Misleading again. While it is true that paid annual leave is 5 days after 1-10 years, 10 days after 10-20 years, and 15 days after 20+ years, public holidays and rest days do not count against annual leave. This adds 13 days of leave off the bat. A more accurat set of numbers would be 18, 23, 28 which is an entirely reasonable amount of leave. (Plus a few extra for minority groups to celebrate our major holidays).
The 2025 consumption-boost plan also explicitly calls for strict implementation of paid annual leave, making paid annual leave enforcement a focus of supervision, protecting rest rights, and prohibiting illegal extension of working hours:
False. China has a statutory medical-treatment period for illness or non-work injury of 3 to 24 months depending on working years and years with the employer. During that period, sick-pay/disease-relief pay must be paid and cannot be below 80% of the local minimum wage. Employers also cannot simply dismiss workers during the prescribed medical period.
Go read up on the concept of the commanding heights of the economy. Not to mention the fact that the party owns the golden share in all major companies, and has members on the board. You could watch an explanation of how the economy in China actually works here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E89qUXTX-k
The word ultra is used to refer to idealist leftists who are divorced from the real world and can’t understand the concept of having to make compromises. It’s the people Lenin wrote this book for, specifically this chapter https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch08.htm
The word “Ultra” is used these days by Hasan Piker stans who get extremely triggered when anyone points out AOC or Mamdani are endorsing another DNC establishment ghoul and entryism isn’t working for the 300th time.
It’s the equivalent ally calling someone a Tankie, but that doesn’t work anymore so now they moved on to “Ultra”.
and can’t understand the concept of having to make compromises.
Your angle of refutation is not that China and Cuba are “making compromises” but “this is good and based actually”.
The word ultra is used to refer precisely to what Lenin is talking about, it’s equivalent to pointing out that you are a deeply unserious person who doesn’t engage with material reality we live in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-leftism
My angle of refutation is that I will never cease to be amazed just how idealistic western left is. I suspect this largely stems from the fact that there is very little actual organizing happening, and most people are just LARPing being a communist online without having any understanding of the complexities involved in a genuine struggle. It’s always easy to criticize real work other people are doing.
The current online usage is exclusively done by DSA SocDems.
There’s a battle between US imperialism and opposing forces and the US is taking a massive W in both Venezuela and Cuba because Leftists international solidarity is apparently “idealism” these days. Even in Palestine both China And Russia have
Only Iran is stepping up to the plate.
I guess asking for anything more than Zohran Mamdani DSA members but real international solidarity is too idealistic now.
Maybe in the bubble you live in that’s the case. This is very much standard usage by Marxists to criticize idealists who consistently fail to do actual material analysis of the world.
The only reason Iran is able to step up to the plate is because of material support from Russia and China. I guess actually being able to understand how things are interconnected is too much to ask here.
Next you’ll be telling me that China and Vietnam abandoned socialism because they use markets.
No, but because most money, gdp (3/4), companies and work (80%) etc is fully privately owned with no state ownership at all, because the workers rights are not improving (gig economy booming, retirement going up, vacation being 5 days per decade of work experience, no practical sick leave, the second employment system), because giant companies are slapped on the wrist for transgression and personal C-levels punishments for shit they do like Pinduoduo
My polish nationalist friend we meet again. Here you once again remain pushing falsehoods.
Gig economy being actively cracked down on and regulated to the benefit of workers:
https://hrss.suzhou.gov.cn/jsszhrss/zxfgk/202405/9acd0c4465e24bfeab20419cab150233.shtml
https://ldjy.xizang.gov.cn/xwzx/cjyfzzc/202402/t20240226_404989.html
https://ipc.court.gov.cn/zh-cn/news/view-2849.html
https://www.court.gov.cn/zixun/xiangqing/450651.html
https://fgk.chinatax.gov.cn/zcfgk/c100013/c5241790/content.html
https://chrm.mohrss.gov.cn/人社部等六部门部署加强新就业形态劳动纠纷一站/
https://chinajob.mohrss.gov.cn/h5/c/2024-11-13/418523.shtml
https://www.news.cn/politics/zywj/20260426/7f994e10f9f14810b899795970007a30/c.html
Misleading. Retirement age is being raised gradually over 15 years, while flexible early retirement up to 3 years early remains, delayed retirement requires agreement, special early-retirement protections are retained for hazardous/special work, and older-worker protections are being strengthened. Also, raising retirement from 50 to 55 for women and 60 to 63 for men over a period of 15 years, while life expectancy continues to rise and early-retirement options remain, is not the anti-worker gotcha you seem to think it is.
https://www.spp.gov.cn/spp/tt/202409/t20240913_666042.shtml
https://chrm.mohrss.gov.cn/《实施弹性退休制度暂行办法》发布/
https://big5.www.gov.cn/gate/big5/www.gov.cn/zhengce/202409/content_6974508.htm
https://english.scio.gov.cn/chinavoices/2025-01/02/content_117641102.html
Misleading again. While it is true that paid annual leave is 5 days after 1-10 years, 10 days after 10-20 years, and 15 days after 20+ years, public holidays and rest days do not count against annual leave. This adds 13 days of leave off the bat. A more accurat set of numbers would be 18, 23, 28 which is an entirely reasonable amount of leave. (Plus a few extra for minority groups to celebrate our major holidays).
https://publicservices.hrss.tj.gov.cn/ecdomain/framework/zcydt/fbbafimfopkibboikmfajfanojgaanpa/fadgmmdgopkjbboikmfajfanojgaanpa.do?disp_template=ccnjmfhhefpibbodjemcncephdmpjlhn&fileid=1092&isfloat=1&kbms=1&moduleIDPage=fadgmmdgopkjbboikmfajfanojgaanpa&siteIDPage=zcydt
https://xzfg.moj.gov.cn/front/law/detail?LawID=1737
The 2025 consumption-boost plan also explicitly calls for strict implementation of paid annual leave, making paid annual leave enforcement a focus of supervision, protecting rest rights, and prohibiting illegal extension of working hours:
https://www.news.cn/politics/zywj/20250316/12731c57b4e547f99c55606d9950bebd/c.html
False. China has a statutory medical-treatment period for illness or non-work injury of 3 to 24 months depending on working years and years with the employer. During that period, sick-pay/disease-relief pay must be paid and cannot be below 80% of the local minimum wage. Employers also cannot simply dismiss workers during the prescribed medical period.
https://rsj.gz.gov.cn/zmhd/cjwt/ldbz/content/post_10319021.html
https://chinajob.mohrss.gov.cn/h5/c/2021-06-10/309418.shtml
https://www.gjxfj.gov.cn/gjxfj/xxgk/fgwj/flfg/webinfo/2016/03/1460585589931971.htm
please stop smoking crack, it’s not good for you https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2024/chinas-private-sector-has-lost-ground-state-sector-has-gained-share-among
You do know those are not the same? Its literally like saying that USA citizens live good life because S&P is over 50k.
Edit: and if you don’t believe me about gdp, here you have PRC press release from 3 years ago about Privately owned enterprises (POE means no government shares) http://english.scio.gov.cn/m/pressroom/2022-06/29/content_78295756.htm , ans here you have Daecheng Institute listing pure State Owned Enterperprise GDP https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/720545740 at below 30%.
Go read up on the concept of the commanding heights of the economy. Not to mention the fact that the party owns the golden share in all major companies, and has members on the board. You could watch an explanation of how the economy in China actually works here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E89qUXTX-k
Or even better, actually read a book https://redletterspp.com/products/the-east-is-still-red or two https://1804books.com/products/chinas-great-road would be a new experience for you.
That sounds more like Worst Korea than China or Vietnam.
The Cuban social system is not being abandoned because they wanted to but because the US successfully imposed it on Cuba.
Cuban social system isn’t being abandoned period. Please stop spreading ultra nonsense on here.
What do you even think the world ultra means?
The word ultra is used to refer to idealist leftists who are divorced from the real world and can’t understand the concept of having to make compromises. It’s the people Lenin wrote this book for, specifically this chapter https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch08.htm
The word “Ultra” is used these days by Hasan Piker stans who get extremely triggered when anyone points out AOC or Mamdani are endorsing another DNC establishment ghoul and entryism isn’t working for the 300th time.
It’s the equivalent ally calling someone a Tankie, but that doesn’t work anymore so now they moved on to “Ultra”.
Your angle of refutation is not that China and Cuba are “making compromises” but “this is good and based actually”.
The word ultra is used to refer precisely to what Lenin is talking about, it’s equivalent to pointing out that you are a deeply unserious person who doesn’t engage with material reality we live in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-leftism
My angle of refutation is that I will never cease to be amazed just how idealistic western left is. I suspect this largely stems from the fact that there is very little actual organizing happening, and most people are just LARPing being a communist online without having any understanding of the complexities involved in a genuine struggle. It’s always easy to criticize real work other people are doing.
The current online usage is exclusively done by DSA SocDems.
There’s a battle between US imperialism and opposing forces and the US is taking a massive W in both Venezuela and Cuba because Leftists international solidarity is apparently “idealism” these days. Even in Palestine both China And Russia have
Only Iran is stepping up to the plate.
I guess asking for anything more than Zohran Mamdani DSA members but real international solidarity is too idealistic now.
Maybe in the bubble you live in that’s the case. This is very much standard usage by Marxists to criticize idealists who consistently fail to do actual material analysis of the world.
The only reason Iran is able to step up to the plate is because of material support from Russia and China. I guess actually being able to understand how things are interconnected is too much to ask here.