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Why are dealers complaining? Could they not simply deal those Chinese EVs?
I’d expect US automakers to complain, but unrightfully so, because their products are inferior.
A- 10,000 dollar car
B- 50,000 dollar car
Intrest is 5-15% (depending on credit score)
6 years loan
Interest paid over loan:
5% A- $1,595 B- $7,977
15% A- $5,224 B- $26,122
If the dealership sells a 50k car they can get 6.5k-21k more money than if they sell a 10k car.
They want to sell you the most expensive car they can
So even if they could sell you the “cheap” Chinese EVs they would make less profit
This is just one reason. Sales margin is another. When you’re a Ford dealership and get special treatment from Ford you have higher profit margins. If you just flip a Chinese EV with no special treatment you have lower margins.
If there was a solid 10k car available less people would buy the 50k car (average cost of a new car today)
Inexpensive cars on the US market is not good for dealerships in anyway
Good. Eat shit.
You guys had your chance. Instead you shoved giant fucking trucks and SUVs down our throats while telling us we didn’t want good, small, electric cars. I hope you all choke to death.
I… I was trying to disagree. But you’re making it damn difficult.
Maybe they can eat a dick.
Well. In Germany we say “Der Markt regelt das”. Translated: economy speaks for itself. <- Ironically spoken
Like it or Not. China made it. They will also flood Europe/EU soon. I’m not mad, when they can, they should. This is our beloved capitalism.
One German politician warned car companies that they need to make affordable EV. They didn’t listen and still don’t.
Edit: Added “<- Ironically spoken” to first sentence to make clear how I was meaning it.
The funny thing is the “True” Americans think a capitalism free market is absolute peak. They say well if it was a TRUE capitalism free market it would be perfect. Its because of the state we have issues! No you idiot, its because of billionaires which capitalism by design creates.
They say this while using government to prevent import of superior vehicles, just like they did for Japan in the 90s (chicken tax anyone?)
Socialism for the rich. Rugged individual capitalism for the 99%.
This is amazing
Not a fan of this sentence. Market doesn’t care about human sensitivities, not one bit.
Which one exactly?
Der Markt regelt das. No it doesn’t. Not without enforced regulation.
One German politician warned car companies that they need to make affordable EV. They didn’t listen and still don’t.
Being an Asian having grown up in Europe, I can say that Westerners have a short term, profiteering mindset. We think too much if the earnings for the next quarter will keep the shareholders happy. There is no long term planning and vision. I find Western businesses afraid of leaving their initial core industry, even if that industry is going the way of the dodos like fossil fuel cars.
I can’t exactly assess Chinese industries much, but Japanese businesses are excellent and unafraid with diversifying away from their initial offerings, and reaching out to a completely separate field. Nintendo was a card manufacturing company but is now a videogame titan. Fujifilm went from photo and film to biotechnology. Sony just recently eked out to finance and investing. Western companies don’t really do this, but instead waste money by fighting tooth and nail to keep dying businesses alive. Western companies are obsessed with making money now, while East Asian companies prioritise existence.
Nintendo was a card manufacturing company but is now a videogame titan. Fujifilm went from photo and film to biotechnology. Sony just recently eked out to finance and investing
Hitachi makes consumer electronics and heavy industrial construction machinery.
But somehow Ford can only make F150s and Mustangs any more…
And they miss obvious things too. How did Sears, a company that became famous and hide by offering magazines to show the cost of their goods to everyone before that was a thing, lose to an online bookstore? How did a video rental place (Blockbuster) not see the obvious benefit of mailing DVDs and then later internet streaming and get beat by a no name company like netflix?
Probably exactly as you say. It would have cost a year or two of missed quarterly earnings as they entered new markets, so they missed the opportunities entirely.
How did Sears
That one baffles me. They were doing catalog based mail order since the start of their business.
They should have been in the perfect position to compete with what Amazon has become. They already had all the infrastructure in place. All they needed was a decent website version of their existing catalog with a simple ordering method, and they utterly failed at that.
They had online ordering years before amazon was even a thought, but the high ups canned it saying that the internet was just a passing fad. They put themselfs out of business while saying they knew better then the customer the whole while.
Like most successful companies of the past, they were bought by a hedge fund or real estate fund and milked for any cash before assets were disposed. There are plenty more big name companies about to die because their business is no longer the product they made, it is only return for shareholder.
We think too much if the earnings for the next quarter will keep the shareholders happy.
That We is pulling a lot of weight and i’d mostly translate it as C-suits and management.
Japanese businesses are excellent
The Zaibatsu model has different incentives, particularly when they’re jockeying for position with American internationals on their own turf.
They’re very good at undercutting American industry. But I’d consider the Japanese cartel model flawed in other ways - miserable places to actually work for, agonizingly patriarchal, debilitating drinking/drug culture, zero work life balance, and the pay is shit.
That is true. But I mean branching out is something that Western companies should not be afraid of. EV and renewables are no brainers; but legacy firms in the fossil fuel industries are spending millions to prevent change and would rather see the world burn.
Although, to several Western company’s credit, they do branch out. Many European energy utilities have mostly diversified away from fossil fuels. The state-backed Danish company, Orsted, completely got rid of their fossil fuel mix, and transitioned 100% to renewable. But Trump cancelling their projects in US East Coast ruined their short term profitability. In any case, Orsted is firm with their full transition to renewable energy.
EV and renewables are no brainers; but legacy firms in the fossil fuel industries are spending millions to prevent change and would rather see the world burn.
When you see reports come out from fossil fuel companies, they quite literally describe “$X trillion of hydrocarbons in the ground”.
Many European energy utilities have mostly diversified away from fossil fuels.
Europe only really has the Baltic as a reserve. They’ve been cut off from much of the Middle East by decades of war.
So, unlike the US, which has become an oil exporter for the last twenty years, Europeans either went woke or went broke.
The problem is China subsidizing their cars to suffocate the European manufacturers. When all the European manufactures are closed or sold to China, you’ll see the real prices.
EDIT: Also, soon? They are already here.
Yes. They’re subsidizing so hard that the EVs are dirt-cheap HERE. You know, all those companies running at a loss to sell … domestically … while somehow … innovating.
Compassionate fucking Buddha this endless whining about “subsidies” gets tiresome after a while. Grow the fuck up you idiots and leave the kiddie pool.
The subsidies aren’t special at all compared to US and EU ones, and they’re apparently going to be phased out over the next 5 years. This supposed evil scheme just doesn’t seem to exist; the truth of the matter is that China just makes better and cheaper cars.
China just makes better and cheaper cars.
Why wouldn’t they?
After decades of being the west’s factory they’d be stupid not to learn.
And better is just upping the QA more than their western customers (who want the cheapest possible 'cos line must go up).Better is a whole lot more than “upping the QA”. The cars here are genuinely innovative and, more importantly, the logistical and fabrication techniques are innovative.
One of the major reasons the big name Chinese EVs are cheaper than their roughly equivalent western counterparts is because the companies are vertical, not horizontal, in their supply chain.
This is our beloved capitalism.
That’s sort of the joke. We are living in the IRL equivalent of people complaining Communism is OP in Victoria 3.
“What do you mean you’re leveraging a highly efficient network of state owned enterprises to obtain materials and utilities nearly at-cost?! That’s cheating!!!”
China has ten highly productive and innovative EV companies in a bloody knuckled price war because it’s state government makes starting and growing auto plants artificially cheap and easy.
The dealership system is garbage. Let the battle begin.
Say what you will, but I’ll take BYD over Tesla any day.
My “fear” with the Tesla system is customer service after the sale. Usually a local dealer will have to consider repeat sale and after-market service and repair. Building a good customer relation is key to that. Alternative is am anonymous underpaid call center “drone” in another country or dead email drops that never gets answered. Or worse some kind of AI chat feature on a glossy professional web page.
My issue with all electric cars is the development rate and the risk of platforms not being supported for an extended time. How long will software be serviced? Right now I do not dare own an electric car older than five years as there are so many bugs due to rushed development
Local dealers dont give a fuck about repeat sales. They are a monopoly. Many own several dealerships in the region, so even going to the next town… congrats, you just bought from the same person.
And customer service? Lmfao. They just do the bare minimum. God fordbid you try to get a warranty fix. They’ll do everything to avoid fixing the problem.
Shitty dealerships thrive, what are you talking about? They don’t give a fuck about customer relationship, they just say that in their radio commercials.
European fllet and personal buyers are starting to turn away from US cars. Not impressively, but a little.
Europeans are purchasing American cars? Why? We aren’t even purchasing American cars in the US.
Because maga stupidity is spreading. Here’s a big fuckin stupid American truck in Norway, it can barely fit down the fuckin roads in Lofoten but sure enough, dipshits need to stroke their ego with their oversized gender affirming trucks.
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Greed, lack of standards and sub-standard vehicles finally caught up with them.
Government bailout then?
They’ve been so busy downsizing their workforce, they forgot how to make a car under $40k
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Isn’t that just trading one evil country for two evil countries, the newest of which being even more evil?
No way in hell China is more evil than America. They’re plenty evil, but nothing China has done in recent history was as evil as the War on Terror, and don’t even get me started on Israel.
China is:
- Erasing Tibetan culture, including the disappearance of the Panchen Lama small child and replacement with a state approved one.
- Committing Genocide against Uighurs, including sending them into forced labor camps and forced sterilization.
- Controlling Hong Kong with a militaristic occupation.
- Disputing the statehood of Taiwan.
- Attacking Philippines and Australian vessels in their own waters.
- Financing Russia’s war on Ukraine.
- Financing North Korean dictatorship.
- Causing a global shift to the conservative right using their TikTok psyop.
- An actual, full on, permanent dictatorship.
- Prepping for new wars by covertly constructing an underground military city 10x the size of the pentagon in only 8 months, having hoped the world wouldn’t notice.
It’s easily, easily, eeeeaaaasiiiilllllyyy, way more evil and destructive than the USA, and holds way more puppet states around the world as well.
A state that is committing multiple genocides, controlling outside populations via military occupation, challenging the sovereignty of a neighboring nation, attacking foreign vessels, financing a war they have no business being in, propping up dictators, and massively expanding their military to an alarming degree… is worse than the USA??
Yes.
Weird because I was describing the USA
You don’t get it, but you’re not stupid so please listen. Still, with all your points, China is still the lesser evil. Please let that sink in. China is way less aggressive in its role as world police. US keeps positioning itself as the only good country in the world, having act world police all over, without mandate or collaboration from others. US politicians are getting high on their own Hollywood movie drugs. US is still threatening to invade a NATO ally, which is far worse. There’s absolutely no real reason for that, regardless of what the current US dictator will have you believe! Next, digital sovereignty is where US is also the more evil than China, because at least China is not fucking every single consumer behind a cloak of fake privacy and security. China does its fucking in daylight and that makes it less of a problem because it’s visible.
Nobody is really allies with Chins, or Russia for that matter, but they somehow are the lesser evil.
US is heading into an abyss, and corporate greed is at the steering wheel. Good luck with all the corruption at the top and downwards!
Listen, for all the bad things you can say specifically about the Trump admin, try to keep in mind that Trump won in part because he was favored by the Chinese and promoted on TikTok leading to the largest shift towards conservativism ever recorded in youth voters.
You really made my point for me by talking about NATO, something China and Russia heavily oppose, being a deterrent to war while China has no “real” allies. Except for Russia, North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, Indonesia, etc. You know, theres something of a trend with all of those nations, can you name what it is? The most democratic country in that list is Indonesia and it still routinely elects members of the family of the previous dictator from before 1998, under whose rule featured multiple occupations, genocides, and anticommunist purges.
China and before them the USSR are parasitized by a social disease which spreads bloodshed and takes away human rights to everything it touches.
You’re still not listening. The problem is not the Trump administration but rather that he was elected - again. All of US has to take responsibility for the failed democratic setup that by definition is now a dictatorship. Even if by some magical process a not insane dictator is elected you can give no guarantees anymore that US will become better and not go batshit crazy again. “EU will have to seize Alaska for security reasons! We cannot guarantee this will not happen with military power! US is a bad ally! US is a dumpsterfire! US is a poorly led country. We in EU need to make US pay because they are have been using EU as a cash machine for years. How stupid are we in EU to let this continue. But yeah Alaska will become European one way or the other. We need it!” How does that sound? Will US support EU in the process of making Alaska European? Because we expect US to support that to ensure US is not helping China and Russia further.
Arm go Up. Line Go Down.
