If you had asked me what that symbol was before this campaign, I would have just said a pirate symbol. The only people with obsessive knowledge of SS iconography are WW2 buffs, neonazis, and neonazi WW2 buffs.
If you gave the average person a quiz, asking people to pick out nazi iconography from other uses of that imagery such as pirate flags. Most would fail that quiz. You likely would as well.
I’m sorry, but the “Nazi tattoo” thing is bullshit. A kid got a pirate flag tattoo, later found it was problematic, and covered it up. And bottom feeders like you use that as justification to slander him, even though there is no allegation he has ever been involved in any neo Nazi or similar movements ever before. I think you may be the actual Nazi here.
The average person doesn’t have this symbol tattooed on their chest, and as such are less prone to learn about it. When you (a person who presumably doesn’t have a Totenkopf on their chest) see a Totenkopf in the countless media about WWII, or the are we the baddies meme, or whatever, it doesn’t stand out to you, and it isn’t memorable, and you forget, and you don’t learn about it. And that makes complete sense.
But if you have it tattooed on your chest, and it’s what you see every morning when you brush your teeth, you’re a bit more likely to go “wait a minute I know that” when a totenkopf appears on the screen. Maybe you’ll miss it the first couple times, but in 18 whole years of adult life with this thing on your chest, you will at some point make the connection between your tattoo and the symbol on David Mitchell’s cap.
Also, just as a meta argument: arguing that someone who knows what a Totenkopf is is a nazi but that having it tattooed on your chest is fine is completely fucking bizarre.
You are betraying the memory of all those killed in the Holocaust by watering down the term Nazi. People one here are calling Platner a Nazi even though there has never been any evidence that he has ever been a member of a neo Nazi group, ever espoused Nazi ideals or policies, ever attended Nazi events, etc.
You’re like a 17th century witch hunter looking for weird looking moles on people, concluding their signs of the Devil’s corruption. You can’t actually demonstrate Platner doing any actual Nazi stuff, so you have to grasp at the straw of a tattoo a drunk kid got one day while in the Marines.
And really, go to the actual Wikipedia article on the Totenkopf Note that the exact same symbol was used as a pirate flag. For most people, that’s what they associate with the deaths head.
If what you claim is true, why has every pirate movie not been picketed by the Jewish rights groups? I imagine they would be protested if they had pirates flying swastika flags. Yet, no one gave a shit about pirate symbols until a progressive candidate has one on his chest.
The totenkopf might have been common among Nazi ranks and in its symbology, but the American education system failed to communicate that fact.
I know about the swastika, SS symbol, and iron cross, yet Graham Platner’s campaign was the first I’ve ever heard about the totenkopf.
But hey, Graham has never organized with Neonazi groups, and he covered up the tattoo once he learned the meaning. Case closed.
Why are we spending time on this and avoiding the part where Platner is Anti-Israel as compared to Susan Collins? Is the Gaza genocide not important to you??
True, I can forgive westerners for not recognizing these symbols for what they are, our education is a joke. I support him above any Republican who are essentially open fascists, I just don’t believe he is as authentic he says. It’s been shown he knew what it was long before he covered it up as well.
He might turn out to be an amazing senator and an actual progressive, I have just seen white men with this style for decades, and it’s like a black widow or a grizzly bear telling you they are changed and won’t cause any harm. Actions speak louder than words and the only actions definitively attributable to him is shooting and bombing people and a mild “sex scandal”.
Does he have a history of union organizing, charitable work or anything like that? I’m not automatically assuming he will be terrible, I do believe people can change, even if he was literally an avowed nazi. I just think it’s important people temper their expectations.
That sketch came out a year before he got the tattoo. You think a deployed early 20s marine was watching a lot of British comedy shows? You’re a buffoon.
If your best evidence of it being a widely known Nazi symbol was that it was on a sketch of the “Mitchell and Webb” show, you’ve got some pretty shit evidence
The only people with obsessive knowledge of SS iconography are WW2 buffs, neonazis, and neonazi WW2 buffs.
And those of us who are high enough on their lists to spend five minutes learning to identify common symbols that indicate danger.
I think you may be the actual Nazi here.
Seriously? This is the worst thing about y’all. You simply won’t allow for the possibility that criticism is even genuine, let alone legitimate. Every single time someone raises a potential concern, it’s always, “You’re the real Nazi!” or “You’re a DNC bot!” or whatnot. As if there isn’t a single person on the planet who gets worried when a guy with a Nazi tattoo and a history as a mercenary is running for office.
You can argue that Platner is a lesser evil or whatever, but this, “If you have a problem with a totenkopf tattoo, you’re the real Nazi” shit is just straight up cult behavior.
You’re arguing with a literal moron. I don’t know why you think he’s going to suddenly develop a frontal lobe and be capable of reason.
It’s obvious that these “I hate Platner” astroturfers have no interest in doing anything other than spreading their hate. They don’t want a discussion. They want to scream shit at you until you give in and let them be “right” even though not a single shred of anything exists to support their nonstop whining and bitching over a fucking pirate skull.
It’s not a pirate skull, you troglodyte and your attempts to downplay Nazi iconography make you a nazi apologist at best and a Nazi at worst. Do you have brain damage or vision problems???
I understand that you’re not familiar with the symbol and that this is your first time encountering it. I can easily believe that a drunk soldier in the same boat wouldn’t know the difference either. But the design of the Nazi version is distinct and recognizable, if you’ve seen it. The tattoo was indisputably a totenkopf and not a pirate flag. Nobody who knows what a totenkopf is would get the two confused.
The part that I take issue with is when you go around saying that nobody knew what a totenkopf was before this and therefore all criticism about it must be in bad faith. You’re just projecting your own knowledge and experiences onto every other person on the planet. I knew what a totenkopf was years before this and my impression of the symbol has nothing to do with Platner, or like, Maine in general. Platner could be the greatest or the worst person in the world and it wouldn’t change what I think about the symbol at all. My knowledge about and impression of the totenkopf is based on it being plastered on Nazi uniforms, and used by Neo-Nazis, not a controversy over some random Senate candidate.
It’s just ridiculous that you won’t even accept the possibility that people you disagree with are just wrong, that’s not enough, they have to be actively malevolent and dishonest. Even in the most generous possible read of Platner, there are still red flags that would cause some people to have genuine concerns and doubts about him.
The only people with obsessive knowledge of SS iconography are WW2 buffs, neonazis, and neonazi WW2 buffs.
I belong to exactly none of these groups but I know the obvious Nazi symbols because I don’t want Nazis around me or the people I love. Fuck off with the obvious fallacies.
No sir, I don’t give a fuck about Platner, I call them obvious Nazi symbols because it’s literally what comes up in the first image when you Google “obvious Nazi symbols”, you fucking doofus.
How many pirate movies have been picketed by Jewish rights groups? Pirate movies feature deaths head flags quite prominently. If the actual Holocaust remembrance and Jewish rights organizations don’t have a problem with it, then you’re probably just being a moron.
Nah that’s such a cope. First of all he IS a WW2 buff. Second it’s fairly common knowledge that the SS used the skull and crossbones symbol. So if you’re getting a skull and crossbones tattoo in CROATIA, literally an Axis nation with a strong Neo-Nazi movement, maybe you should have your guard up?
Oh, and then there’s the part where he has reddit comments prior to being called out on his tattoo literally talking about the totenkopf. And comments saying how lots of US military personnel have Nazi-adjacent tattoos but it’s totally fine.
I know about how much alcohol was involved with combat marines in foreign ports and let me tell you, its a miracle that he remembers getting the tattoo in the first place, let alone getting it for some sort of deep seated ideological reason.
My first association of skull and crossbones isn’t Nazis. It’s pirates. When I think of Nazis, I think of the Swastika. That’s at least distinctive enough that it can be relegated to a Nazi symbol. But I’m sorry, I’m not letting the Nazis own the skull and cross bones. I’ll fly that flag high as a symbol of piracy and rebellion. I see nothing wrong with getting a skull and cross bones tattoo even today. I’m not letting the Nazis steal our culture from us.
Oh, and then there’s the part where he has reddit comments prior to being called out on his tattoo literally talking about the totenkopf. And comments saying how lots of US military personnel have Nazi-adjacent tattoos but it’s totally fine.
Who cares? He got it in his early 20ss. I’m sure at some point he later figured out the connection, or someone pointed it out to him. There was probably a several year delay before he went from “yeah, I suppose this does look a bit like that Nazi symbol, but I know I didn’t get it for Nazi purposes, so I don’t care” to “shit. I’m running for office. I’m seeking to be a role model. Best to cover that shit up before I put myself out in the limelight. It’s a bad example to send to children.” Self-discovery takes time.
I’m not looking to smear leftists though, so I don’t see what the big deal is.
If you can’t believe that a person can change, what hope can you have that societies can?
Wow. So you’re saying that if you inadvertently got a Nazi tattoo (which is already being generous btw), and then found out later that you had a huge SS tattoo on your chest, your reaction would just be “oh lol that’s a bummer” and go on with your life and not get it covered? Cause I’d be pretty fucking horrified.
When confronted with his obvious moral failings over the years, Planter’s defenders say “he’s changed, he wants to be a better person.” To which i say, has he really shown accountability for any of this?
He to this day he denies knowing he had a Nazi tattoo up until he was publicly called out on it, despite clear evidence to the contrary. He denies allegations of misconduct against his past girlfriends. I don’t think he’s even been open about cheating on his partner with like 14 different women just said something vague like “I wasn’t a good partner cause I had PTSD”
I believe people have the power to change but this guy feels like just another greasy politician to me, and I dont believe he has genuine remorse if he’s not even willing to admit to this stuff.
He had it on his chest for like 2 decades before getting it covered up. The only reason he got it covered up is because when he ran for office people called him out on it, but based on his comments on Reddit about totenkopfs and Nazi tattoos in the US military he clearly knew what it was long before the public outcry and did nothing (and in my opinion he probably knew what it was when he got it).
“Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody is watching”
Here you go. Scroll down and you will see a comment from his confirmed reddit account “P-Hustle”.
Somebody asks how do you know the person in the photo is SS, to which someone replies “The totenkopf on the dude first on the left is a good clue.” Then someone says that having a skull on your uniform doesn’t make you a bad guy, using the Punisher skull as an example, and then P-Hustle jumps in and says “When I was in Ramadi in ‘06 as a Marine grunt, the SEAL platoon we worked closely with for the deployment all had the Punisher skull spray painted on their armor carriers. There’s no question it’s far more prevalent on all the dumbass Grunt Style and Nine Line shirts these days, but the teams definitely adopted it for a while.”
So he 100% knew about totenkopfs, I don’t see any way around that. I don’t read too much into his comment specifically but the fact that he was chiming in on a comment about the use of skulls in the US military, on a thread about totenkopfs, is pretty damning.
Here’s the full article without a paywall. He also has other comments about Nazi-adjacent symbols in the US military, and how he thinks its fine.
Now, if you want to say, “knowingly having a totenkopf tattoo doesn’t make you a Nazi” I agree, I don’t think he’s a Nazi. But the lack of transparency (read: lying) he has demonstrated around this makes me question his character. Is it possible he really has made the crazy character arc of being a jarhead Iraq war mercenary misogynist to clean, woman-respecting leftist? Sure, but i’m gonna need a little more accountability than what he’s showing.
That’s not nearly as good of evidence as promised.
The thread doesn’t actually provide any reference to what the totenkopf was besides being a skull. So unless he took the time to research it we’re still at square 1. Really his comment only reinforces the idea that he just believed it was a skull.
You framed it convincingly, but the source is not a blatant as you made it out to be.
The second article was a bit better though.
Honestly reflects a guy I knew that was in the Marines. They got confederate flag tattoos as a unit, because that’s what the unit did. Years later he regrets it and is honestly a great guy. Just made a dumb move at 20.
Franky many of the leftist I know IRL radicalized after their military service. Lot of young kids signed up after 9/11 and saw the shit first hand. They grew to hate it, but it was a process. So overall yeah I can believe a progressive dem went through a similar cycle.
If your main hang up is accountability wait until you hear about the competition
Wow. So you’re saying that if you inadvertently got a Nazi tattoo (which is already being generous btw), and then found out later that you had a huge SS tattoo on your chest, your reaction would just be “oh lol that’s a bummer” and go on with your life and not get it covered? Cause I’d be pretty fucking horrified.
Honestly, yes. I would react just that way. If I knew I didn’t get it as a Nazi symbol, and I realize that 99% of the population doesn’t recognize it as a Nazi symbol? Then yeah, I would be in no hurry to get rid of it. The Nazis had tons of symbols. We can’t just let them delete whole swathes of our culture. It’s OK to let go of the most blatant ones, like the swastika. I’m not going to try and redeem that. But the swastika is also the Nazi’s most well known symbol. Any prior association has been completely washed out by this. But a deaths head? That’s not a a Nazi symbol. That’s a pirate flag Nazis decided to appropriate.
If I got a tattoo that I thought was cool, but later found out it was also co-opted by some group of Nazis in a minor way? No. I’m not going to be in a rush to remove that. I refuse to let Nazis control my life. As long as the vast majority of the population doesn’t see it as a Nazi symbol, and I know in my heart I don’t mean it as a Nazi symbol? I’m not going to be in any rush to remove it.
Imagine if I was old enough to say, have a wedding anniversary or other important event in 1988, and, before knowing the neo-Nazi implication, got a tattoo that said “88.” If I later learned about the implications of that number, unless that tattoo was in a highly visible location, I wouldn’t remove it. I’m not publicly advertising the 88 by showing it off. The only people who ever see it are those close enough to me to know I’m not a Nazi. No. I see no reason to remove that. But maybe if I was going into public office, I would then remove it so that I wasn’t placing that symbol in the limelight.
Or, we can stop with this childish gotcha bullshit. Unless Platner has actually advocated Nazi policies, then STFU. Having poor symbolism doesn’t make you a Nazi. Believing in Nazi ideals, Nazi policies, and trying to enact them makes you a Nazi.
I can see why he took his time because honestly, it’s not that big a deal. I would have no problem hanging out with someone who had a such a tattoo. Hell, I wouldn’t view it as disqualifying to date someone with such a tattoo (if I weren’t already married.)
Again, it’s a pirate flag tattoo. That’s almost certainly what he was thinking of when he got it, and what it meant in his mind.
I’m sure his thought process was something like, “yeah, that pirate tattoo I got as a kid does unfortunately resemble the one the Nazis used. Everyone I know close enough to actually see the tattoo knows I’m not a Nazi, but as I’m entering politics, I better get it covered up before the hyperventilating morons on the internet use it as an excuse to slander me as a Nazi.”
In fact, I think you need to delete your lemmy username. Why? Because your name included “de Sol.” The Sun. You know what a major Nazi was? That’s right, the Black Sun!
The Nazis used solar iconography. Your account references the Sun. Therefore, you are a Nazi. Please delete your lemmy account, Nazi scum.
That’s so disingenuous. If I had a “black sun” tattoo, yeah that’s a pretty damn good sign im a Nazi or at least a Nazi sympathizer or edge lord. There’s a huge difference between that and regular sun imagery. You’re making it sound like Platner had a generic jolly Roger or skull and crossbones tattoo, when his design was clearly a skull and crossbones based off of the totenkopf. It doesnt just happen to resemble a totenkopf thats literally what it is. It is NOT a pirate tattoo, no more so than a tattoo of an eagle holding a swastika is an Indian good-luck symbol. Sure you can trace its roots back to something more innocent but that doesn’t make it innocent.
The claim that WoodScientist is trying to argue is not just that he didn’t know what it meant when he got it (and that it’s fine he left it after learning about it), but also that anyone criticizing the tattoo must be disingenuous, because nobody knew what the symbol was before this controversy. In fact, lots of people knew what it was, some from that sketch, some from movies and stuff, some from keeping an eye on far-right groups, etc. If anything, the only thing I’m learning about from this controversy is just how many people don’t recognize it.
I still see it as a just a pirate symbol. I’m 90% certain you wouldn’t have been able to recognize it as a Nazi symbol in a line up of other deaths head symbols before this campaign started. Here it is:
To me this is just a pirate flag. Do you also call everyone that owns a dog a Nazi, because Hitler owned a dog?
In what world is this a pirate flag. Show one place this is used as a pirate flag. Come on, it’s one thing to say you don’t know but you’re just lying now.
Holy mental gymnastics, batman. He was a fighter, a WWII buff, a marine, a mercenary, who bragged about “fun wars”, and got a Nazi tattoo in a former Nazi-aligned state, and beyond universal healthcare, he really isn’t even terribly progressive or radical. If the boot fits…
This bizarre type of simping for milquetoast, neoliberal, suspicious candidates is how y’all keep ending up with the likes of Hillary and Biden - who inevitably cede their power to increasingly right-leaning candidates. This refusal to demand better for the Democrats (and further, admonishing those that do) is how we keep diving deeper into the fascist decay.
The simping is crazy. All the evidence points to a questionable past and when its brought up, people attack that individual instead. Its rather bizarre.
I hope Platner does a good job. If he ends up making questionable political choices moving forward though there would then shrug.
But you’ve been arguing that any Totenkopf or Death’s Head is by definition a Nazi symbol. So clearly you must think the US Marines who flew that flag while killing actual historical Nazis must themselves have been Nazis.
He was a fighter, a WWII buff, a marine, a mercenary, who bragged about “fun wars”, and got a Nazi tattoo in a former Nazi-aligned state, and beyond universal healthcare, he really isn’t even terribly progressive or radical. If the boot fits…
So he sounds like basically every soldier I’ve ever met? And quit slandering him with the Nazi label. You’re insulting the victims of the Holocaust every time you water down that term.
Platner is not a neoliberal. He defeated a neoliberal in the primary, running on an unabashadly progressive ticket. Demanding better Democrats is exactly why we now have Platner.
Your attitude is precisely why we’ve been stuck with such milquetoast candidates. Your approach selects for psychopathy. You demand candidates have perfectly manicured pasts. You only accept people with spotlessly clean backgrounds with nothing you find uncomfortable or problematic. The only people with those backgrounds are power-hungry psychopaths who’ve been groomed their entire lives for paths of power. You’re looking for wealthy white people who went to private school, did debate club in high school, and attended an Ivy League school. That’s the only kind of candidate you find acceptable - highly polished, a perfectly curated social media history, absolutely nothing objectionable about them.
That’s how you end up with soulless corporate goons. You end up with people that ultimately believe in nothing except achieving power, and they’ve lived their entire lives ensuring that they do absolutely nothing that could ever offend someone. You’re looking for candidates that have spent more time obsessing over their image than actually living their lives.
Sorry, but real people make mistakes. Real people have flaws. And if the Democratic Party is going to have any future, it needs to stop crucifying every male candidate that doesn’t have the vibe of a Harvard gender studies major.
I didn’t when I saw the tattoo and I didn’t recognize it as being the same as the one in from the That Mitchell and Webb Look skit, either. You must have an incredible eye for detail and amazing memory that you recognized the Nazi tattoo and were able to also recall it matched the symbol on a hat ypu saw in a sketch show.
Or maybe you’re trying too hard.
Dude got what he thought was a cool looking tattoo, not knowing the Nazi reference. What’s the other evidence you’re using to judge him here?
I wasn’t judging him, I’m saying people know that symbol as a symbol that Nazis used. Perhaps I recognize it because my dad watched WWII films/documentary as a kid.
If I’m suppose to judge him then his job working for Blackwater doesn’t paint the best picture of an individuals morals. I’m happy that he won, but his past is strange for a progressive.
people know that symbol as a symbol that Nazis used
I didn’t, and, while I’m not an expert in nazi iconography, I do know my fair share of symbols and dogwhistle phrases associated with them and other white power/neo nazi groups; a lot of new ones thanks to this administration posting them to xitter.
Perhaps I recognize it because my dad watched WWII films/documentary as a kid.
And here we have it. Your dad exposed you to information the average citizen does not possess. Your anecdote is not representative of “most people” as you said it was.
Here is the actual symbol.
If you had asked me what that symbol was before this campaign, I would have just said a pirate symbol. The only people with obsessive knowledge of SS iconography are WW2 buffs, neonazis, and neonazi WW2 buffs.
If you gave the average person a quiz, asking people to pick out nazi iconography from other uses of that imagery such as pirate flags. Most would fail that quiz. You likely would as well.
I’m sorry, but the “Nazi tattoo” thing is bullshit. A kid got a pirate flag tattoo, later found it was problematic, and covered it up. And bottom feeders like you use that as justification to slander him, even though there is no allegation he has ever been involved in any neo Nazi or similar movements ever before. I think you may be the actual Nazi here.
Notice how the guy’s only response to you is to call you ignorant for pointing out that he didn’t actually know a goddamn thing about the topic?
Your ignorance of history is not something to be celebrated. You sound naive to a fault. Life will be very hard for you.
The average person doesn’t have this symbol tattooed on their chest, and as such are less prone to learn about it. When you (a person who presumably doesn’t have a Totenkopf on their chest) see a Totenkopf in the countless media about WWII, or the are we the baddies meme, or whatever, it doesn’t stand out to you, and it isn’t memorable, and you forget, and you don’t learn about it. And that makes complete sense.
But if you have it tattooed on your chest, and it’s what you see every morning when you brush your teeth, you’re a bit more likely to go “wait a minute I know that” when a totenkopf appears on the screen. Maybe you’ll miss it the first couple times, but in 18 whole years of adult life with this thing on your chest, you will at some point make the connection between your tattoo and the symbol on David Mitchell’s cap.
Also, just as a meta argument: arguing that someone who knows what a Totenkopf is is a nazi but that having it tattooed on your chest is fine is completely fucking bizarre.
Yes pretend people alive right now haven’t been raised by family directly affected by Nazis. As if our parents and grandparents didn’t exist.
You are betraying the memory of all those killed in the Holocaust by watering down the term Nazi. People one here are calling Platner a Nazi even though there has never been any evidence that he has ever been a member of a neo Nazi group, ever espoused Nazi ideals or policies, ever attended Nazi events, etc.
You’re like a 17th century witch hunter looking for weird looking moles on people, concluding their signs of the Devil’s corruption. You can’t actually demonstrate Platner doing any actual Nazi stuff, so you have to grasp at the straw of a tattoo a drunk kid got one day while in the Marines.
And really, go to the actual Wikipedia article on the Totenkopf Note that the exact same symbol was used as a pirate flag. For most people, that’s what they associate with the deaths head.
If what you claim is true, why has every pirate movie not been picketed by the Jewish rights groups? I imagine they would be protested if they had pirates flying swastika flags. Yet, no one gave a shit about pirate symbols until a progressive candidate has one on his chest.
It’s not an obscure symbol, it is one of the most commonly used Nazi emblems, for example seen here:
The totenkopf might have been common among Nazi ranks and in its symbology, but the American education system failed to communicate that fact.
I know about the swastika, SS symbol, and iron cross, yet Graham Platner’s campaign was the first I’ve ever heard about the totenkopf.
But hey, Graham has never organized with Neonazi groups, and he covered up the tattoo once he learned the meaning. Case closed.
Why are we spending time on this and avoiding the part where Platner is Anti-Israel as compared to Susan Collins? Is the Gaza genocide not important to you??
True, I can forgive westerners for not recognizing these symbols for what they are, our education is a joke. I support him above any Republican who are essentially open fascists, I just don’t believe he is as authentic he says. It’s been shown he knew what it was long before he covered it up as well.
He might turn out to be an amazing senator and an actual progressive, I have just seen white men with this style for decades, and it’s like a black widow or a grizzly bear telling you they are changed and won’t cause any harm. Actions speak louder than words and the only actions definitively attributable to him is shooting and bombing people and a mild “sex scandal”.
Does he have a history of union organizing, charitable work or anything like that? I’m not automatically assuming he will be terrible, I do believe people can change, even if he was literally an avowed nazi. I just think it’s important people temper their expectations.
I’d like to see the evidence for this.
BWAHAHAA!
That sketch came out a year before he got the tattoo. You think a deployed early 20s marine was watching a lot of British comedy shows? You’re a buffoon.
If that’s the point you think they were making, I feel bad for the people in your life who have to suffer your presence.
If your best evidence of it being a widely known Nazi symbol was that it was on a sketch of the “Mitchell and Webb” show, you’ve got some pretty shit evidence
It’s just to illustrate that it has been shown in media depictions for years, this isn’t the only example I could find, I just thought it was funny.
You mean the widely used meme that most people don’t know where it’s from but do know is a Nazi immediately when they see it?
And the one front and center on the hat?
Also doesn’t look the picture.
Sorry but you’re full of shit and you know it.
Sorry but you shouldn’t be allowed to drive with vision that poor. Good luck with your Nazi-murderer senator.
Good luck with your lying and slandering folks on behalf of Israel.
Ehm, cough, cough, …, this is the sign of the 3rd SS Panzer Division. So, yep, it is related to the Third Reich and hence to the Nazi regime.
Can you tell me which of these are Nazi symbols and which of them are pirate symbols?
This is an invalid argument because it pretends dogwhistles aren’t real, it pretends the intent is irrelevant of other interpretations exists.
HE KNEW THE ASSOCIATION AND KEPT IT
If it’s that terrible of a symbol, why aren’t pirate movies protested by Jewish rights groups? I guess Johnny Depp is a Nazi too?
And those of us who are high enough on their lists to spend five minutes learning to identify common symbols that indicate danger.
Seriously? This is the worst thing about y’all. You simply won’t allow for the possibility that criticism is even genuine, let alone legitimate. Every single time someone raises a potential concern, it’s always, “You’re the real Nazi!” or “You’re a DNC bot!” or whatnot. As if there isn’t a single person on the planet who gets worried when a guy with a Nazi tattoo and a history as a mercenary is running for office.
You can argue that Platner is a lesser evil or whatever, but this, “If you have a problem with a totenkopf tattoo, you’re the real Nazi” shit is just straight up cult behavior.
IF it’s that terrible a symbol, why aren’t pirate movies boycotted and picketed by Jewish rights groups?
Because, no matter how many times you repeat “it’s just a pirate symbol!!!” (how many times in this thread?) that’s doesn’t make it true:
It’s not just a “skull and crossbones,” it’s the specific design that was used by the Nazis and is known as a hate symbol.
It is the same fucking thing. Here’s a WW2 Luftwaffe version:
Here’s a historical pirate one.
They’re the same fucking symbol.
You’re arguing with a literal moron. I don’t know why you think he’s going to suddenly develop a frontal lobe and be capable of reason.
It’s obvious that these “I hate Platner” astroturfers have no interest in doing anything other than spreading their hate. They don’t want a discussion. They want to scream shit at you until you give in and let them be “right” even though not a single shred of anything exists to support their nonstop whining and bitching over a fucking pirate skull.
It’s not a pirate skull, you troglodyte and your attempts to downplay Nazi iconography make you a nazi apologist at best and a Nazi at worst. Do you have brain damage or vision problems???
They absolutely are not.
I understand that you’re not familiar with the symbol and that this is your first time encountering it. I can easily believe that a drunk soldier in the same boat wouldn’t know the difference either. But the design of the Nazi version is distinct and recognizable, if you’ve seen it. The tattoo was indisputably a totenkopf and not a pirate flag. Nobody who knows what a totenkopf is would get the two confused.
The part that I take issue with is when you go around saying that nobody knew what a totenkopf was before this and therefore all criticism about it must be in bad faith. You’re just projecting your own knowledge and experiences onto every other person on the planet. I knew what a totenkopf was years before this and my impression of the symbol has nothing to do with Platner, or like, Maine in general. Platner could be the greatest or the worst person in the world and it wouldn’t change what I think about the symbol at all. My knowledge about and impression of the totenkopf is based on it being plastered on Nazi uniforms, and used by Neo-Nazis, not a controversy over some random Senate candidate.
It’s just ridiculous that you won’t even accept the possibility that people you disagree with are just wrong, that’s not enough, they have to be actively malevolent and dishonest. Even in the most generous possible read of Platner, there are still red flags that would cause some people to have genuine concerns and doubts about him.
I belong to exactly none of these groups but I know the obvious Nazi symbols because I don’t want Nazis around me or the people I love. Fuck off with the obvious fallacies.
It’s only an “obvious Nazi symbol” because you’ve chosen to call it that to slander Platner.
Before this campaign, you wouldn’t have been able to pick it out from a line up of pirate flags. You’re full of it.
Totenkopf:
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/totenkopf
Platner’s tattoo before it was covered up:
No sir, I don’t give a fuck about Platner, I call them obvious Nazi symbols because it’s literally what comes up in the first image when you Google “obvious Nazi symbols”, you fucking doofus.
My whole first page was swastikas. You want to complain about “obvious falsehoods”, don’t lie about such easily checked shit, you fucking doofus.
Hey, stupid, the totenkopf is in the literal first image. Are you new?
Oh hey, look at all this Nazi symbolism!
How many pirate movies have been picketed by Jewish rights groups? Pirate movies feature deaths head flags quite prominently. If the actual Holocaust remembrance and Jewish rights organizations don’t have a problem with it, then you’re probably just being a moron.
Totenkopf:
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/totenkopf
Platner’s tattoo before it was covered up:
Pirate flags:
Are you really too stupid to tell the difference between a pirate flag and a Totenkopf?
Googled it. Checks out.
Nah that’s such a cope. First of all he IS a WW2 buff. Second it’s fairly common knowledge that the SS used the skull and crossbones symbol. So if you’re getting a skull and crossbones tattoo in CROATIA, literally an Axis nation with a strong Neo-Nazi movement, maybe you should have your guard up?
Oh, and then there’s the part where he has reddit comments prior to being called out on his tattoo literally talking about the totenkopf. And comments saying how lots of US military personnel have Nazi-adjacent tattoos but it’s totally fine.
Hang on, is it a Nazi tattoo or a Nazi-adjacent tattoo?
Can you at least get your lies straight among yourselves, back in Jerusalem or wherever Mossad assigned you to post from?
I know about how much alcohol was involved with combat marines in foreign ports and let me tell you, its a miracle that he remembers getting the tattoo in the first place, let alone getting it for some sort of deep seated ideological reason.
My first association of skull and crossbones isn’t Nazis. It’s pirates. When I think of Nazis, I think of the Swastika. That’s at least distinctive enough that it can be relegated to a Nazi symbol. But I’m sorry, I’m not letting the Nazis own the skull and cross bones. I’ll fly that flag high as a symbol of piracy and rebellion. I see nothing wrong with getting a skull and cross bones tattoo even today. I’m not letting the Nazis steal our culture from us.
Who cares? He got it in his early 20ss. I’m sure at some point he later figured out the connection, or someone pointed it out to him. There was probably a several year delay before he went from “yeah, I suppose this does look a bit like that Nazi symbol, but I know I didn’t get it for Nazi purposes, so I don’t care” to “shit. I’m running for office. I’m seeking to be a role model. Best to cover that shit up before I put myself out in the limelight. It’s a bad example to send to children.” Self-discovery takes time.
I’m not looking to smear leftists though, so I don’t see what the big deal is.
If you can’t believe that a person can change, what hope can you have that societies can?
Wow. So you’re saying that if you inadvertently got a Nazi tattoo (which is already being generous btw), and then found out later that you had a huge SS tattoo on your chest, your reaction would just be “oh lol that’s a bummer” and go on with your life and not get it covered? Cause I’d be pretty fucking horrified.
When confronted with his obvious moral failings over the years, Planter’s defenders say “he’s changed, he wants to be a better person.” To which i say, has he really shown accountability for any of this?
He to this day he denies knowing he had a Nazi tattoo up until he was publicly called out on it, despite clear evidence to the contrary. He denies allegations of misconduct against his past girlfriends. I don’t think he’s even been open about cheating on his partner with like 14 different women just said something vague like “I wasn’t a good partner cause I had PTSD”
I believe people have the power to change but this guy feels like just another greasy politician to me, and I dont believe he has genuine remorse if he’s not even willing to admit to this stuff.
Lol, at least get the facts right. He didn’t say oh well, he learned and got a cover up tattoo
He had it on his chest for like 2 decades before getting it covered up. The only reason he got it covered up is because when he ran for office people called him out on it, but based on his comments on Reddit about totenkopfs and Nazi tattoos in the US military he clearly knew what it was long before the public outcry and did nothing (and in my opinion he probably knew what it was when he got it).
“Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody is watching”
Legitimately do you have any source for the claim he talked about the totenkopf on reddit before running.
In all the discourse I’ve heard on this, this is the first time I’ve seen that brought up
https://web.archive.org/web/20190226141422/https:/www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/auy0bi/battleweary_ss/
Here you go. Scroll down and you will see a comment from his confirmed reddit account “P-Hustle”.
Somebody asks how do you know the person in the photo is SS, to which someone replies “The totenkopf on the dude first on the left is a good clue.” Then someone says that having a skull on your uniform doesn’t make you a bad guy, using the Punisher skull as an example, and then P-Hustle jumps in and says “When I was in Ramadi in ‘06 as a Marine grunt, the SEAL platoon we worked closely with for the deployment all had the Punisher skull spray painted on their armor carriers. There’s no question it’s far more prevalent on all the dumbass Grunt Style and Nine Line shirts these days, but the teams definitely adopted it for a while.”
So he 100% knew about totenkopfs, I don’t see any way around that. I don’t read too much into his comment specifically but the fact that he was chiming in on a comment about the use of skulls in the US military, on a thread about totenkopfs, is pretty damning.
https://archive.is/20251026233121/https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/24/politics/graham-platner-nazi-tattoo-evidence-kfile-invs
Here’s the full article without a paywall. He also has other comments about Nazi-adjacent symbols in the US military, and how he thinks its fine.
Now, if you want to say, “knowingly having a totenkopf tattoo doesn’t make you a Nazi” I agree, I don’t think he’s a Nazi. But the lack of transparency (read: lying) he has demonstrated around this makes me question his character. Is it possible he really has made the crazy character arc of being a jarhead Iraq war mercenary misogynist to clean, woman-respecting leftist? Sure, but i’m gonna need a little more accountability than what he’s showing.
That’s not nearly as good of evidence as promised.
The thread doesn’t actually provide any reference to what the totenkopf was besides being a skull. So unless he took the time to research it we’re still at square 1. Really his comment only reinforces the idea that he just believed it was a skull.
You framed it convincingly, but the source is not a blatant as you made it out to be.
The second article was a bit better though.
Honestly reflects a guy I knew that was in the Marines. They got confederate flag tattoos as a unit, because that’s what the unit did. Years later he regrets it and is honestly a great guy. Just made a dumb move at 20.
Franky many of the leftist I know IRL radicalized after their military service. Lot of young kids signed up after 9/11 and saw the shit first hand. They grew to hate it, but it was a process. So overall yeah I can believe a progressive dem went through a similar cycle.
If your main hang up is accountability wait until you hear about the competition
Honestly, yes. I would react just that way. If I knew I didn’t get it as a Nazi symbol, and I realize that 99% of the population doesn’t recognize it as a Nazi symbol? Then yeah, I would be in no hurry to get rid of it. The Nazis had tons of symbols. We can’t just let them delete whole swathes of our culture. It’s OK to let go of the most blatant ones, like the swastika. I’m not going to try and redeem that. But the swastika is also the Nazi’s most well known symbol. Any prior association has been completely washed out by this. But a deaths head? That’s not a a Nazi symbol. That’s a pirate flag Nazis decided to appropriate.
If I got a tattoo that I thought was cool, but later found out it was also co-opted by some group of Nazis in a minor way? No. I’m not going to be in a rush to remove that. I refuse to let Nazis control my life. As long as the vast majority of the population doesn’t see it as a Nazi symbol, and I know in my heart I don’t mean it as a Nazi symbol? I’m not going to be in any rush to remove it.
Imagine if I was old enough to say, have a wedding anniversary or other important event in 1988, and, before knowing the neo-Nazi implication, got a tattoo that said “88.” If I later learned about the implications of that number, unless that tattoo was in a highly visible location, I wouldn’t remove it. I’m not publicly advertising the 88 by showing it off. The only people who ever see it are those close enough to me to know I’m not a Nazi. No. I see no reason to remove that. But maybe if I was going into public office, I would then remove it so that I wasn’t placing that symbol in the limelight.
Or, we can stop with this childish gotcha bullshit. Unless Platner has actually advocated Nazi policies, then STFU. Having poor symbolism doesn’t make you a Nazi. Believing in Nazi ideals, Nazi policies, and trying to enact them makes you a Nazi.
I can see why he took his time because honestly, it’s not that big a deal. I would have no problem hanging out with someone who had a such a tattoo. Hell, I wouldn’t view it as disqualifying to date someone with such a tattoo (if I weren’t already married.)
Again, it’s a pirate flag tattoo. That’s almost certainly what he was thinking of when he got it, and what it meant in his mind.
I’m sure his thought process was something like, “yeah, that pirate tattoo I got as a kid does unfortunately resemble the one the Nazis used. Everyone I know close enough to actually see the tattoo knows I’m not a Nazi, but as I’m entering politics, I better get it covered up before the hyperventilating morons on the internet use it as an excuse to slander me as a Nazi.”
In fact, I think you need to delete your lemmy username. Why? Because your name included “de Sol.” The Sun. You know what a major Nazi was? That’s right, the Black Sun!
The Nazis used solar iconography. Your account references the Sun. Therefore, you are a Nazi. Please delete your lemmy account, Nazi scum.
That’s so disingenuous. If I had a “black sun” tattoo, yeah that’s a pretty damn good sign im a Nazi or at least a Nazi sympathizer or edge lord. There’s a huge difference between that and regular sun imagery. You’re making it sound like Platner had a generic jolly Roger or skull and crossbones tattoo, when his design was clearly a skull and crossbones based off of the totenkopf. It doesnt just happen to resemble a totenkopf thats literally what it is. It is NOT a pirate tattoo, no more so than a tattoo of an eagle holding a swastika is an Indian good-luck symbol. Sure you can trace its roots back to something more innocent but that doesn’t make it innocent.
Its the symbol used on that " are we the baddies?" Skit, people recognize it as a Nazi symbol in pop culture.
That came out rougher 1 year before he got the tattoo.
How many British comedies do you think a deployed Marine was watching?
The claim that WoodScientist is trying to argue is not just that he didn’t know what it meant when he got it (and that it’s fine he left it after learning about it), but also that anyone criticizing the tattoo must be disingenuous, because nobody knew what the symbol was before this controversy. In fact, lots of people knew what it was, some from that sketch, some from movies and stuff, some from keeping an eye on far-right groups, etc. If anything, the only thing I’m learning about from this controversy is just how many people don’t recognize it.
I still see it as a just a pirate symbol. I’m 90% certain you wouldn’t have been able to recognize it as a Nazi symbol in a line up of other deaths head symbols before this campaign started. Here it is:
To me this is just a pirate flag. Do you also call everyone that owns a dog a Nazi, because Hitler owned a dog?
In what world is this a pirate flag. Show one place this is used as a pirate flag. Come on, it’s one thing to say you don’t know but you’re just lying now.
Look at the actual Wikipedia article on the symbol. It literally has a whole section on the use of the symbol in pirate flags.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf
Holy mental gymnastics, batman. He was a fighter, a WWII buff, a marine, a mercenary, who bragged about “fun wars”, and got a Nazi tattoo in a former Nazi-aligned state, and beyond universal healthcare, he really isn’t even terribly progressive or radical. If the boot fits…
This bizarre type of simping for milquetoast, neoliberal, suspicious candidates is how y’all keep ending up with the likes of Hillary and Biden - who inevitably cede their power to increasingly right-leaning candidates. This refusal to demand better for the Democrats (and further, admonishing those that do) is how we keep diving deeper into the fascist decay.
The simping is crazy. All the evidence points to a questionable past and when its brought up, people attack that individual instead. Its rather bizarre.
I hope Platner does a good job. If he ends up making questionable political choices moving forward though there would then shrug.
Do you think this is a Nazi flag as well?
Because this is a flag of people who literally fought and died against the actual historical Nazis.,
I’ve never seeing that flag before and I cannot make a judgement on it.
But you’ve been arguing that any Totenkopf or Death’s Head is by definition a Nazi symbol. So clearly you must think the US Marines who flew that flag while killing actual historical Nazis must themselves have been Nazis.
The picture presented is not a Totenkopf though.
What is the name of the flag? Or a source of it? I don’t recognize it.
So he sounds like basically every soldier I’ve ever met? And quit slandering him with the Nazi label. You’re insulting the victims of the Holocaust every time you water down that term.
Platner is not a neoliberal. He defeated a neoliberal in the primary, running on an unabashadly progressive ticket. Demanding better Democrats is exactly why we now have Platner.
Your attitude is precisely why we’ve been stuck with such milquetoast candidates. Your approach selects for psychopathy. You demand candidates have perfectly manicured pasts. You only accept people with spotlessly clean backgrounds with nothing you find uncomfortable or problematic. The only people with those backgrounds are power-hungry psychopaths who’ve been groomed their entire lives for paths of power. You’re looking for wealthy white people who went to private school, did debate club in high school, and attended an Ivy League school. That’s the only kind of candidate you find acceptable - highly polished, a perfectly curated social media history, absolutely nothing objectionable about them.
That’s how you end up with soulless corporate goons. You end up with people that ultimately believe in nothing except achieving power, and they’ve lived their entire lives ensuring that they do absolutely nothing that could ever offend someone. You’re looking for candidates that have spent more time obsessing over their image than actually living their lives.
Sorry, but real people make mistakes. Real people have flaws. And if the Democratic Party is going to have any future, it needs to stop crucifying every male candidate that doesn’t have the vibe of a Harvard gender studies major.
I didn’t when I saw the tattoo and I didn’t recognize it as being the same as the one in from the That Mitchell and Webb Look skit, either. You must have an incredible eye for detail and amazing memory that you recognized the Nazi tattoo and were able to also recall it matched the symbol on a hat ypu saw in a sketch show.
Or maybe you’re trying too hard.
Dude got what he thought was a cool looking tattoo, not knowing the Nazi reference. What’s the other evidence you’re using to judge him here?
I wasn’t judging him, I’m saying people know that symbol as a symbol that Nazis used. Perhaps I recognize it because my dad watched WWII films/documentary as a kid.
If I’m suppose to judge him then his job working for Blackwater doesn’t paint the best picture of an individuals morals. I’m happy that he won, but his past is strange for a progressive.
I didn’t, and, while I’m not an expert in nazi iconography, I do know my fair share of symbols and dogwhistle phrases associated with them and other white power/neo nazi groups; a lot of new ones thanks to this administration posting them to xitter.
And here we have it. Your dad exposed you to information the average citizen does not possess. Your anecdote is not representative of “most people” as you said it was.