The “horrendous social issue” at hand is forcing people to work without pay. Another word for this is “slavery”. I’m sure you’ve caught on by now that the 13th amendment has a loophole for enslaving convicts.
I am aware of all of this, and I’ve consistently acknowledged it throughout this entire exchange. I’m not deceiving myself into believing I live in some kind of utopia. I don’t. America has very serious problems.
I asked what country they’re from because it’s relevant to the discussion. There is not a single country on Earth that is free of blemishes, whether in its history or in its present.
Calling America a bad country while living in a country with its own serious flaws is an act of hypocrisy.
We’re all just people living on the same planet, each under whatever political system we happened to be born into.
If you live in America, then you know how good many aspects of life are here. It’s not the best country on Earth, and we absolutely have severe problems that need to be addressed. But it’s still a good place to live, with good people and a culture that has produced an enormous amount of good for the world. Our leadership is often disappointing, and the rise of nationalism is genuinely concerning. Those are problems worth opposing in every lawful way we can.
What I’m not willing to do is join in treating America as though it’s uniquely evil while ignoring the faults of every other nation. I love the United States. I’m a patriot. I love the people who live here, and I have no desire to leave for another country.
Wait, so now you have “consistently acknowledged” that the US has legalized slavery enshrined in the Constitution? This is very confusing, as we can all scroll up and see your earlier comments.
There is no form of slavery in the U.S. that is supported by either the government or the general public.
We do not have legal slavery.
A real patriot acknowledges their country’s faults, no matter how difficult this may be. A real patriot does not stick their head in the sand and make excuses about “the faults of every other nation”. I get the strong impression that you are not a real patriot.
Feel free to check my comment history at any point. I’ve admonished America on many levels. We have very serious problems, and I even acknowledged that in the comment above.
I’ll tell you what I tell everybody else: antebellum chattel slavery in the United States is not the same thing as requiring labor from a convicted felon. Even then, incarcerated felons retain a multitude of constitutional rights.
You have no reason to believe what I’m about to tell you because I have no way to prove it. But I’ve done time in the U.S. prison system, so I’m uniquely familiar with that environment. As flawed as our court system is, and as dysfunctional as some of our prisons are, I can tell you that I and the people I served time with deserved to be there.
Does our prison system need reform? Absolutely. Probably more than almost any other institution in the United States right now.
I also stand up for my country when I see people making unsubstantiated blanket statements about things they know nothing about. Many of them probably learned about America’s problems through their own state-run or heavily biased media.
The rest of the world often dislikes America, and sometimes for legitimate reasons. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to sit quietly while some bloke on Lemmy badmouths the country I love.
Yeah, because it uses slavery lol. We aren’t talking about my country, we’re talking about America, which is currently aiding a genocide in the middle east, and starting multiple wars this year alone, all while using slavery for manual labor.
We don’t use slavery for manual labor. That’s an extreme exaggeration of what’s happening in a small number of prisons in a handful of states.
If you’d like to discuss wage inequality or the wealth gap, I’m happy to do that, but it’s a different conversation than the one we’re having here.
So why aren’t we talking about your country?
I think I understand why you won’t answer. There are only two possibilities: either you’re from America, in which case you’re applying a double standard, or you’re from another country with its own serious problems, in which case you’re hardly in a position to lecture anyone.
There isn’t a single country on Earth, past or present, that hasn’t committed moral wrongs or isn’t currently grappling with serious moral failings. That doesn’t excuse them, but it does mean criticism should be applied consistently rather than selectively.
We don’t use slavery for manual labor. That’s an extreme exaggeration of what’s happening in a small number of prisons in a handful of states.
No, you literally do, in most states. Honestly if you just deny reality like this much more I’m just not gonna entertain your bullshit.
So why aren’t we talking about your country?
Because this thread is about America being a shit hole.
I think I understand why you won’t answer. There are only two possibilities: either you’re from America, in which case you’re applying a double standard, or you’re from another country with its own serious problems, in which case you’re hardly in a position to lecture anyone.
No, it’s because this thread is about America being a shit hole.
Wrong on both of your assumptions.
There isn’t a single country on Earth, past or present, that hasn’t committed moral wrongs or isn’t currently grappling with serious moral failings. That doesn’t excuse them, but it does mean criticism should be applied consistently rather than selectively.
K, and this thread is about America being a shit hole.
Your attempt to steer the conversation away from America using slavery as a punishment is pathetic. Are we done here?
No, not even close. Your attempt to sidestep the obvious hypocrisy people are displaying in this comment thread isn’t going to work.
This thread is not about America being a shithole. It’s about America falling behind the rest of the world, which it is in several important ways, and that’s extremely concerning, as I’ve stated in previous comments. America is objectively not a shithole. You’d know that if you actually lived here. The United States still has an extremely high standard of living.
And even if this were about America being a shithole, I still have the right, and perhaps even a duty, to defend my home and the people I love.
But let’s address your claims.
“No, you literally do, in most states. Honestly, if you deny reality this much more, I’m just not gonna entertain your bullshit.”
The 13th Amendment abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, but it expressly preserves an exception allowing involuntary labor as punishment for a crime following a lawful conviction. Whether prison labor should be characterized as “slavery” is a matter of legal interpretation and political debate.
There is a significant difference between the antebellum system of chattel slavery and requiring convicted prisoners to perform labor as part of their sentence. Prisoners also retain a multitude of constitutional and legal rights. The unacceptable conditions found in some American prisons are a separate issue, and one I’ve already acknowledged.
What you’re doing is deliberately erasing that distinction. If you’re going to call every form of compulsory prison labor “slavery” without acknowledging the legal and historical nuance, then you’re either arguing in bad faith or you’re uninformed. Possibly both.
Sure, just dismiss everything I’ve said. Continue making unsubstantiated blanket statements that you probably only believe because of your own state’s media, then end the conversation when you’re challenged.
You’ve been a disingenuous, bad-faith participant from the beginning. You’re not interested in evidence or discussion, you just want to reinforce your own confirmation bias. At this point, you’re about as useful as a fart in the wind.
Ok. Louisiana has one of the worst prison systems in America. The judicial system is irrationally racist against black men.
Congratulations on pinpointing one of the horrendous social issues that we have in America.
What country are you from?
The “horrendous social issue” at hand is forcing people to work without pay. Another word for this is “slavery”. I’m sure you’ve caught on by now that the 13th amendment has a loophole for enslaving convicts.
Not sure how it’s relevant, but I live in the US.
I am aware of all of this, and I’ve consistently acknowledged it throughout this entire exchange. I’m not deceiving myself into believing I live in some kind of utopia. I don’t. America has very serious problems.
I asked what country they’re from because it’s relevant to the discussion. There is not a single country on Earth that is free of blemishes, whether in its history or in its present.
Calling America a bad country while living in a country with its own serious flaws is an act of hypocrisy.
We’re all just people living on the same planet, each under whatever political system we happened to be born into.
If you live in America, then you know how good many aspects of life are here. It’s not the best country on Earth, and we absolutely have severe problems that need to be addressed. But it’s still a good place to live, with good people and a culture that has produced an enormous amount of good for the world. Our leadership is often disappointing, and the rise of nationalism is genuinely concerning. Those are problems worth opposing in every lawful way we can.
What I’m not willing to do is join in treating America as though it’s uniquely evil while ignoring the faults of every other nation. I love the United States. I’m a patriot. I love the people who live here, and I have no desire to leave for another country.
Wait, so now you have “consistently acknowledged” that the US has legalized slavery enshrined in the Constitution? This is very confusing, as we can all scroll up and see your earlier comments.
A real patriot acknowledges their country’s faults, no matter how difficult this may be. A real patriot does not stick their head in the sand and make excuses about “the faults of every other nation”. I get the strong impression that you are not a real patriot.
I get the strong impression that they’re fucking stupid.
And you’re a small-minded coward.
At least I don’t deny the reality of slavery happening in my country, now finally:
No, I don’t think so. I’m going to continue to brow beat you because you’re an idiot.
Feel free to check my comment history at any point. I’ve admonished America on many levels. We have very serious problems, and I even acknowledged that in the comment above.
I’ll tell you what I tell everybody else: antebellum chattel slavery in the United States is not the same thing as requiring labor from a convicted felon. Even then, incarcerated felons retain a multitude of constitutional rights.
You have no reason to believe what I’m about to tell you because I have no way to prove it. But I’ve done time in the U.S. prison system, so I’m uniquely familiar with that environment. As flawed as our court system is, and as dysfunctional as some of our prisons are, I can tell you that I and the people I served time with deserved to be there.
Does our prison system need reform? Absolutely. Probably more than almost any other institution in the United States right now.
I also stand up for my country when I see people making unsubstantiated blanket statements about things they know nothing about. Many of them probably learned about America’s problems through their own state-run or heavily biased media.
The rest of the world often dislikes America, and sometimes for legitimate reasons. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to sit quietly while some bloke on Lemmy badmouths the country I love.
Dumbass, your country uses prisoners for slaves even in California. It’s not some niche occurance. Your defense of it is disgusting.
Hold on. I’m not defending anything. I am outright stating that we are doing this.
Our prison system is atrocious. It’s third world. It’s absolutely terrible.
What country are you from?
Yeah, because it uses slavery lol. We aren’t talking about my country, we’re talking about America, which is currently aiding a genocide in the middle east, and starting multiple wars this year alone, all while using slavery for manual labor.
We don’t use slavery for manual labor. That’s an extreme exaggeration of what’s happening in a small number of prisons in a handful of states.
If you’d like to discuss wage inequality or the wealth gap, I’m happy to do that, but it’s a different conversation than the one we’re having here.
So why aren’t we talking about your country?
I think I understand why you won’t answer. There are only two possibilities: either you’re from America, in which case you’re applying a double standard, or you’re from another country with its own serious problems, in which case you’re hardly in a position to lecture anyone.
There isn’t a single country on Earth, past or present, that hasn’t committed moral wrongs or isn’t currently grappling with serious moral failings. That doesn’t excuse them, but it does mean criticism should be applied consistently rather than selectively.
No, you literally do, in most states. Honestly if you just deny reality like this much more I’m just not gonna entertain your bullshit.
Because this thread is about America being a shit hole.
No, it’s because this thread is about America being a shit hole.
Wrong on both of your assumptions.
K, and this thread is about America being a shit hole.
Your attempt to steer the conversation away from America using slavery as a punishment is pathetic. Are we done here?
No, not even close. Your attempt to sidestep the obvious hypocrisy people are displaying in this comment thread isn’t going to work.
This thread is not about America being a shithole. It’s about America falling behind the rest of the world, which it is in several important ways, and that’s extremely concerning, as I’ve stated in previous comments. America is objectively not a shithole. You’d know that if you actually lived here. The United States still has an extremely high standard of living.
And even if this were about America being a shithole, I still have the right, and perhaps even a duty, to defend my home and the people I love.
But let’s address your claims.
The 13th Amendment abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, but it expressly preserves an exception allowing involuntary labor as punishment for a crime following a lawful conviction. Whether prison labor should be characterized as “slavery” is a matter of legal interpretation and political debate.
There is a significant difference between the antebellum system of chattel slavery and requiring convicted prisoners to perform labor as part of their sentence. Prisoners also retain a multitude of constitutional and legal rights. The unacceptable conditions found in some American prisons are a separate issue, and one I’ve already acknowledged.
What you’re doing is deliberately erasing that distinction. If you’re going to call every form of compulsory prison labor “slavery” without acknowledging the legal and historical nuance, then you’re either arguing in bad faith or you’re uninformed. Possibly both.
Fuck off, if you’re going to continue to deny reality I’m not going to bother reading your drivel. We’re done here.
Sure, just dismiss everything I’ve said. Continue making unsubstantiated blanket statements that you probably only believe because of your own state’s media, then end the conversation when you’re challenged.
You’ve been a disingenuous, bad-faith participant from the beginning. You’re not interested in evidence or discussion, you just want to reinforce your own confirmation bias. At this point, you’re about as useful as a fart in the wind.