This is not acceptable. As I started muttering, I was asked if the US is actually really much better. It might not be so terrible yet, but overwhelming the same direction
Yes, the state is extremely repressive especially in the heart of empire.
And Trump made this mob the underdog with his war on the Epstein files. What joke!
Well, Iran had a democratic government before the U.S. and U.K. orchestrated the coup in 1953 that installed the Shah. The government was led by Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh, who was democratically elected and nationalized the oil industry.
And?
We are talking about what is now, and not what was before
I like the idea of remembering history and who the real villains are. These scum are just a result of American work.
I like this extra information. Why do you have a problem with it?
Context weakens the mindless imperialism that most USAians embrace.
Good thing we’re about to give them a half a trillion dollars. Goddamn the entire world sucks.
Who is “we”? Fuck nationalism. That’s the heart of the problem.
I don’t really mind when a genocidal empire pays for its crimes.
little men will do anything to stay in power.
A nice little reminder that, even with everything else, Iran is still a shit hole.
A little reminder that casual racism is alive and well. It’s this kind of bullshit that elected the pedoprez. U$A is by far the biggest shithole around.
We dont kill our woman for not wearing head gear. Nor our children when they stand up for our women’s right not to wear head gear.
Under any other circumstances you would be right. America is a shithole, I would agree with you.
That fact that you decided to make that point on a comment about a woman getting beaten for not wearing a headscarf, (in a place that jailed and killed thousands for similar, with their secret-god-police) tells me all I need to know about you as a person.
It wasnt that long ago that Mahsa Amini was killed. I will never forget or forgive the well documented violence that Iran perpetrated on its women and it’s young and hopeful.
It’s a shit hole.
No, you guys just execute people for being black, assuming you don’t put them in modern slave camps.
Iran is a shithole. The US is a shithole. I wouldn’t throw stones if I lived in a house of glass, but you do you.
That’s right. Trump shouldn’t have started a war with Iran, but it’s still a shithole country.
Imagine being such a shit hole that the world is rooting for Iran.
This mentality exhausts me. If people can stop treating geopolitics like a fucking sports match that would be great. We don’t have to root for anyone in a given conflict. We can acknowledge both sides are bad and not matter the outcome it will be bad for common people.
If we ever are able to do this we might actually have some progress. But until then we continue to worship inherently evil states
Imagine being so morally bankrupt, you can’t pick a side. It’s called critical support. I don’t support the actions of the Iranian state, but I support them in their defensive war against the global hegemon.
Funny how your type will double down on how there’s no moral choice between democrats and Republicans
Yet somehow you can find the “moral” choice between a theocratic dictatorship (also capitalist btw) and an imperial nation.
A) nobody mentioned any political party affiliation; if you want to fight people you’ve made up in your head, I recommend some grippy socks.
B) nobody has to support Iran. People support peace, which by definition means opposing the US in this conflict. Seeing as how this conflict literally has 2 sides, that definitionally means “supporting Iran.” If anything, YOU’RE the one boiling a desire for peace and stability down to “team sports.”
a) it’s an example to illustrate a point. You only have to be a very moderate lemmy user to know what I’m talking about.
b) The first sentence was correct. The rest you made up, but that’s okay you are right for the most part. Unfortunately some people don’t just mean supporting Iran in terms of the conflict with the US/Israel. If you look at the comment that I replied to you can see the user says that Iran should be supported because they oppose global hegemony. That extends far beyond the recent conflict.
In their mind the USA is the “enemy team” so whoever is up against them they will then be the “good team”. That’s exactly what the person I replied to is saying. It’s frankly sad and morally bankrupt.
Well said. Critical support for the defending nation doesn’t mean total support for the government.
Death to America.
Lmao, campism is for losers. Get on board with the west being the best or fuck off to whatever illiberal shithole you prefer.
Die, fascist.
No, the war was a good idea and the consequences of it proved that.
If Iran had nukes (which it would soon have, thanks to Trump, who in first term closed nuclear dearment agreement with Iran) and the control over Hormuz Strait and Russia as an ally, it could close the strait just because it felt so, which would be way worse than the current situation.
Oh hey an actual fascist on lemmy.world. I’m so shocked this keeps happening. Reddit is back the way you came, I can promise you weren’t banned for your views.
Get fucked, idiot. There’s no evidence that iran was actually close to getting nukes. Trump was just a massive cunt in starting a war with Iran.
They had almost 10 years of almost uninterrupted development and 2 nuclear countries as allies.
They must’ve been close.
The war didn’t start over just nukes, but also because of the Iranian people, supporting Israel and not letting Iran control such important geopolitical point as the hormuz strait.
Or at least how I see it.
Shithole country doing shithole things.
At least they uphold their laws, even if they’re religious trash. We can’t even get Trump out after two impeachments and evidence he’s a pedo. So who’s worse, a country with extreme religious laws that actually enacts said laws or one with much more reasonable ones but never enforces them.
Enforcing shitty laws is shitty. And you’re right: both are shithole countries doing shithole things.
Por que no los dos ?
Isnt that basically an execution by torture? I dont think anyone could survive 74 actual lashes if they do it like other countries with lashings.
My understanding is that it is not. It is more like a humiliation ritual. They don’t do full force.
They don’t whip them like the Americans whipped their slaves.
Thank God you’re here to tell us the correct way to whip our troublesome women 🙏
Yeah they’re both bad. One killed 100,000 or more people. Guess which one.
I don’t remember the history very well, but I remember that just in January, Iranian regime killed 40 000 of it’s people, because they dared to protest.
LMAO.
40,000!? Lmfao. Next week it will be 100,000!
Pssshh, they‘ve read it in the Guardian, so it must be true.
Lmao.
Couldn’t find a graphic depiction of american slavery, huh? But no problem finding one for Iran? Interesting.
Not particularly, you couldn’t find a relevant image either (and photography was not common, even after the introduction of glass-plate photography, 160 years ago. Everyone in the modern era carries a camera in their pocket, making images like the above from modern-day Iran much easier to produce.)
I don’t think that’s an accurate title for the piece they wrote.
Holeeee fuck. I mean I know Iranian leadership is intensely conservative and traditional, but shittttttt. Do they actually still give whippings as legal punishment?? This will be enforced and she will actually get lashes like it’s 1840s Mississippi??
U$A tortures thousands of people in solitary confinement, etc.
TBH I would rather take 100 lashes than be locked in a box for decades.
There was an Iranian football player who spoke out a while back and they basically said, “do that again and we’ll kill your family.”
Their Lego shit is pretty on point but they’re seriously not good dudes.
Imagine being so shitty that the Iranian government are the good guys. Makes you think.
Imagine instead seeing a conflict and not rushing to pick a side.
I think it’s pretty easy to say the following actually:
Iran fucking sucks and is ass backwards politically. However, the US is beyond wrong in this conflict and is clearly the problem. The US has it wrong and needs to stop.
The problem is, the first part doesn’t really need to be said since we all know this shit is evil. However, so many people think calling out the US doing war crimes is some open ended support of Irans politics.
That’s all I’m saying. As an American, should I be doing everything in my power to stop this evil administration, or should I take a callow stance of “I support Iran” and do nothing? I think I’m seeing a lot of the latter, and it bothers me.
How about I support the side that was attacked first with massive terror bombing campaigns against civilian targets that responded with missile attacks that almost entirely focused on military targets.
Seriously. America started the war by double tapping a girls school intentionally. Almost 200 girls between 9-12 were murdered in that terrorist bombing attack.
And I use the word intentionally as even fucking Google maps knew it was a girls school. First strike packages are the most carefully researched and selected targets in any war.
One side committed the war crime of perfidy during negotions, assassinated the pope of the Muslims, and murdered 200 Iranian schoolgirls on the first day. You’re not going to pick a side?
It’s impossible to bomb Iran back to the stone age. They’re already there.
No, they don’t whip them like the Americans whipped their slaves. 74 lashes would be unsurvivable with a bull whip, a la Americana
Where is the graphic depiction of american slavery? Can only find that for Iran?
Photographs weren’t exactly common 160 years ago, hence the difficulty.
If you can find an image of american slavery that depicts the whips used in use, I welcome it (well kinda, I’d much prefer a non-graphic image of what’s used in Iran, though I couldn’t find that either). Otherwise this is the only relevant image I could find.
(edit: spelling)
Weird sources. Who has killed more people through whipping?
Edit: funny how the Iranian whipping victim was nsfw, yet you chose a sfw whipping victim from the Americans, despite them whipping hundreds of thousands of people to death.
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Amnesty international and CARLI are about as reputable as sources can get.
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There are no stats that* answer that, from Iran or the atlantic slave trade.
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Unless that link is broken, that image depicts an american whip, not a whipping victim. edit: If you mean why didn’t I include photos of an american slavery whipping victim, there are no photographs of slave punishment I could find that have a legible image of the whip, which is the important info here. Photography 160 years ago was not great at capturing motion.
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there were approximately 10 million slaves in the US, total. Although I can’t find exact numbers, if we go by the reasonable estimates from clrn we can see that between 1 in 20 to 1 in 11 slaves died of the euphemistic “conditions of slavery”, so it would be pretty damned impressive for the US to have whipped “hundreds of thousands” of people to death - certainly some were, and even more were simply beaten to death or chained and starved, but please stop making up bullshit about historical tragidies to further your own political narrative.
Studies suggest an excess mortality of 15-20% due to conditions directly related to enslavement. If we apply this mortality rate to the estimated 3-4 million enslaved Africans brought to the Americas, we arrive at an estimated 450,000 to 800,000 deaths.
If you mean why didn’t I include photos of an american slavery whipping victim, there are no photographs of slave punishment I
Literally took me 10 seconds. It’s obviously far worse than the red marks in your photo. That’s why you didn’t post. Be real.
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It’s an extremely famous image - but one that does not show the whip that was used, which was the whole point.
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Those are scars from someone with keloid disorder, which visually appear far more severe but given he is not dead were likely done with the same instrument as I showed above.
If you can find a relevant image from american slavery, or a non graphic image of the whips used in iranian corporal punishment, I welcome it! I looked quite hard and could find neither. Until then, please keep in mind I’m not trying to make the point you’re implying I’m trying to make.
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How’d that liberating of the Iranian people go again?
None of the nations claiming that as a goal give the tiniest flying fuck about Iranians
It made a lot of extremely wealthy Americans even wealthier. So we got that going for the world.
We gave the Iranian regime extremely powerful leverage on the global stage and galvanized support for the regime domestically, so not great. If there was a possibility of a popular revolt happening in Iran the war definitely killed it. The introduction of a common enemy made a lot of the domestic opposition fall in line to defend their sovereignty, and the ones who didn’t were successfully suppressed by the regime with fewer people willing to stand in solidarity with them.
תפשת מרובה לא תפשת
It looks like the us definitely bit off more than they can chew if that’s what you meant and my translation is accurate.
Intended it more directed at Israel than the US.
Could you elaborate? Despite my username, I had to look up a translation and what I got was “you don’t understand a lot”. That kinda reads that like pro invasion considering the dude you’re responding to had some palpable sarcasm. I’m not accusing you, just letting you know my train of thought.
Backwater trash policies.
Omg men saw your HAIR! Give me a fucking break. Grow the fuck up and stop acting like children who can’t control themselves.
As soon as Religion gets into Politics, things invariably go backwards to a 7th century (or whenever that specific religion was invented) mentality.
Yes absolute separation is needed
But
I’m not a believer so don’t think like believers
Lashing people is horrific
You can actually go on YouTube and search “Tehran walking tour” or something similar, and like half the women aren’t wearing any head covering whatsoever…
I don’t know if there are different rules for performers, but I am a bit suspicious. Is the guardian trying to drum up consent for restarting the war? I think some skepticism is warranted.
And before y’all downvote me to oblivion for for being a dictator loving tankie or whatever, remember that the Guardian is British corporate media…the same country where protesting genocide gets you charged as a terrorist. It’s not exactly a place where the ruling class has ever given a shit about human rights.
This was in qom which seems like a overtly religious backwater
People have increasingly challenged the “modest dress” mandates over the past decades, but there used to be a “Guardian Patrol” that would try to enforce modest dress in public spaces. After Mahsa Amini’s death the Guardian Patrol was shut down, and there was a massive increase in women skipping head coverings, in particular in larger cities like Tehran and Esfahan.
However, skipping modest dress in media is a different matter. It has become laxer, but not by the same extent. The religious leadership is extra sensitive about modesty in music, so I think the context of “singing for men without head covering” is the signal here.
I’d also mention that there will be a lot of backsliding of these hard-won victories with this war, as ultraconservatives are gaining a lot of power and legitimacy.
It’s worth noting that Tehran (the city) is generally a little more lax than most of the rest of Iran/* … I’d guess she was singled out because her lack of hair covering could be seen easily from other parts of the country, and they don’t want the women there getting ideas
/* Source: I dated a girl from Tehran once, and that’s what she told me
Literally, there’s an incredible amount of footage from Iran where the vast majority of women aren’t wearing anything of the sort. Do just high profile people get targeted?
It’s common for a lot of authoritarian places to have laws that are selectively enforced. Since the enforcement is rare many people don’t bother following them but if someone bothers someone high up for any reason then breaking the law (that tons of other people break all the time anyway) is an easy excuse for the authorities to come down like a sack of bricks with a pretext ready. Being higher profile makes it more likely that you catch the eye of someone who hates you so it can be safer being some random person too low to notice instead. Though higher profile people also have more people ready to defend them generally so if you do get on someone’s list it’s better to have people in your corner who will make noise and maybe get punishment lessened or called off.
Probably trying to make an example out of her. There has been significant public resistance to the hair covering laws in recent years and the government has made various attempts to bring women back under control. But as with all tyrannical governments, if enough people resist, they simply can’t go after everyone.
That’s a good point, bit like the UK with social media posts
It’s the number one perk of being an authoritarian ruler. Your Authority is absolute and unquestionable. Meaning your hypocrisy is sanctioned and allowed. The rules are only enforced to punish the vulnerable. Whether it’s Trump, Putin, Xi Jinping. The rules are flexible if not invisible until the moment you cross leadership. Then they will descend on you feigning morality.
Everything I’ve seen from The Guardian is reputable.
I know before the war started, I read some coverage from the Guardian of the protests in Iran that was leaning pretty hard into some lurid details and leaving out relevant information that didn’t suit the narrative.
I agree but I wish people would act this way towards western modesty laws as well.
We’re not great, but we don’t publicly torture women for not covering their heads…
I’m not going to defend their bs, but let’s not pretend that puritanical views on female (reproductive and otherwise) morality aren’t killing people in places like the US.
We kill women for having a uterus, not for appearance. Look at the supreme Court’s garbage triggering abortion laws across the country. There is a death toll.
We aren’t exactly doing great in the west.
My BS? This is exactly what I’m talking about. Western governments need to be shamed too.
I believe the “their” there was referring to Iran’s BS, not yours
It is because that is the behavior being questioned, and it was trying to make it clear that I had no interest in glorifying it in any way.
Oh. Well that’s a weird thing to say because I don’t think anyone is defending them but OK.
That is exactly what I was doing.
Yeah I agree. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying though, I’m still unsure.
It’s cool. Happens to me late at night.
Which people? Pretty sure you’d find lots of people doing just that, mostly those who are criticizing policies like the one in the article as well.
In my experience many of the most strident critics of hair coverings refuse to see the similarity to anti-nudity laws, especially nipple covering which is specific to women.
I mean I think the downvotes speak to the fact that the average person is not willing to admit the harms that our own ideas of modesty cause.
Or they think you’re using whataboutism to make it about an issue your personally care about instead of the still very real issue conveyed in the article.
I can kind of see that criticism but I think talking about our own issues and hypocrisy here has relevance here. We do very similar things in our countries and there’s very little fuss about it.
And I did acknowledge that I agree Iranian morality policing should be condemned, so it’s not like I’m trying to defend them, just talk about a related issue.
Then maybe don’t make your statements “Yes… but”, make them “Yes, and”. It makes it less about how you think people should be worried about your issues and simply brings up a related issue as well.
And, again, it’s not like people don’t care. Just like it’s not that people don’t care about the climate crisis, economic inequality, or health care… it’s just people only have so much energy to give. And the current systems we live in do not provide room for an overabundance of sharing it.
Morality laws are stupid, in any country.
True, and this country in particular has some of the worst ones to exist anywhere.
Amongst other things the American/Israeli War of Agression on Iran makes this shit more likely, since in countries at war anybody who demonstrate against the authorities are easilly slandered as being traitors and if it’s a war that they didn’t start then the public opinion is far more likely to side with the Authorities.
according to the article the event in question took place in 2024 which was obviously before the war of israeli and american aggression began.
According to the article the Court sentence came out now.
It makes sense that the regime there feels more emboldened to act in more hardline ways (such as giving the maximum possible sentence in this case) because right now they’re likely seen by most of the Iranian population as “protectors” against the two foreign regimes attacking Iran, both of which are far more murderous that even the regime in Iran at the peak of repression.
It’s the same reason why the most outrageous and intrusive civil society surveillance and control legislation in the US was passed in the period just after 9/11 - times when society at large feel under attack by external forces are ideal moments for those in control to extend and entrench their power and steer the country faster towards their views even if civil society is uncomfortable with it, not least because reasonable and logical criticism against it can easily be painted as being Against The Good Of The Nation and even as Treason.
Like most people, I do not support this war. However, a quick Google search will prove that this type of oppression of women is common in Iran, with or without America and Israel bombing them. Everything bad Iran does cannot be attributed to America and Israel.
Nope but articles like this coming out in greater amounts right now are intentionally being pushed out as propaganda to make people feel okay with America committing terrorist bombing campaigns against civilian targets.
While the content is true, the article itself is explicitly propaganda to justify terrorism.
Yes, I think this is true. I definitely remember news stories about how women were treated in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya before the US government invaded those countries.
My point was that we might want things to be wrapped up in nice packages like “Iran are the good guys and Israel are the bad guys” but that just isn’t how the world works. The comment I replied to was drawing a line from Israel and the US to Iran’s treatment of women and that’s just not what is happening here. I am against the unjust war but I am also against the oppressive treatment of women in countries like Iran. I realize that there are significant cultural differences between my country and theirs but when I read something like this I wonder what it’s like to be born into a system that won’t allow you to sing without wearing a hijab.
I got the impression that this specific case was much more outrageous than usual as she got the maximum sentence for it plus she was actually singing a patriotic song.
I’m well aware than treatment of women in present day Iran is seriously backwards and worse than anything since maybe the 18th century (Persia actually tended to be more modern than their neighbors).
You’re right on the aggregate, but Iran has been doing things like this for decades. Iran was moving in the right direction in the past 15 years but that development has been blocked and likely reversed now with the reformists losing all of their momentum and legitimacy, especially given this past year of war.
Or you know, when they had a fully democratic government before the US came in and installed the puppet Shah which led to the Islamic Revolution of 1979 and brought the fundamentalist government in power.
Iran’s democracy was toppled three times in the 20th century, each time with the British at the helm. The US kinda stole the coup from the British in 1953. What I mean is that this is not just history, it’s also what’s happening now. Iran was moving toward a much more progressive society and those efforts were again sabotaged by the West, not just the US but the West collectively.
On the way to Revolution, things typically get worse before they get better - as authoritarian governments start losing control of the street they invariably increase the intensity of their repression and that’s what trigger a similarly violent response from the population, i.e. the actual Revolution.
The American/Israeli War Of Agression almost certainly walked the whole process back, “wasting” the lives that were lost when the Iranian Government responded to the increased discontent with increase repression.
True, before there was no guarantee that what followed that increased repression was a the public responding by themselves increasing their actions against the government - as murderous government repression doesn’t always trigger a successful mass violent response from the population - now that will for certain not happen because even an oppressive regime is still a “protector” in the eyes of most of the locals when a bunch of murderous foreigners (and both the US and Israel are undeniably massively murderous towards muslims in the Middle East) attacks the nation, so even those in Iran who desire change have to keep their mouths shut since the majority don’t want to risk losing those who have “protected” them from the murderous foreigners.
Obviously terrible, but how do they end up at 74? Is there a table for number of words sung without a hijab?
It’s based on how butt hurt the men feel after a woman pretends to be a human being.
Is it 74 men, or the average butthurtness per man who was butthurtted?
It’s more of a vibe thing. There’s not any data sheets required.
checks
Apparently the sharia court gave her the maximum sentence for a single act.
Article 638- Anyone in public places and roads who openly commits a harām (sinful) act, in addition to the punishment provided for the act, shall be sentenced to two months’ imprisonment or up to 74 lashes; and if they commit an act that is not punishable but violates public prudency, they shall only be sentenced to ten days to two months’ imprisonment or up to 74 lashes.
Note- Women, who appear in public places and roads without wearing an Islamic hijab, shall be sentenced to ten days to two months’ imprisonment or a fine of fifty thousand to five hundred Rials.
Wait, am I reading this wrong? Doesn’t the note mean that hijab crimes aren’t punished with lashing?
I am more curious now, lying is haram too but the regime doesn’t punish that with 74 lashes.
I guess it’s just an excuse to segregate and oppress at the end of the day but still, feels like some religious people should debate this sentencing.
