Full disclosure, I live in Africa and don’t have a dog in this fight. I like proper discourse and it’s alright if I and another person disagree on something, what is important is that we communicate and understand where the other is coming from. The ultimate goal is the satiation of needless and avoidable suffering for all minds.
I’ve only been on Lemmy for a few days but across any sub I’ve noticed any criticism of China or the CCP is met with immediate downvotes and anything remotely positive of the US or really any western country whatsoever meets a similar fate.
Anything pro-African is mostly neutral but in essence ignored, no upvotes, no downvotes, no comments.
Has anyone else noticed this? Am I completely off base here? And is there anything else here that seemingly gets downvoted automatically. It would be sad to see the fediverse and Lemmy be nothing more than just another echo chamber on the web.
Finally, I am posting this assuming it will also be downvoted to hell based on the title alone and that itself will be some monochrome of truth of the situation here.
Anything pro-African is mostly neutral but in essence ignored.
This is sad.
I’m American, and I want the Fediverse to be Euro, Africa, South America heavy. Basically anyone but the usual suspects that dominate news. I want to see stuff from other countries.
I was fortunate enough to get to visit Tanzania, and it was great. It’d be nice if your continent took over the world. Please…
Anyway, be aware that many of the authoritarian shills actually live in the US, Western Europe or wherever. Some do not, but the bulk seem to.
They’re just terminally online.
They don’t know squat about what’s actually going on in North Korea or Iran or China, and they wouldn’t be here if they did because lemmy.ml is banned China, Iran, and obviously North Korea.
Talk to the Eastern European Fediverse folks.
They know precisely what the deal is. You do not hear them praising the Soviets, that’s for sure.
You are right
Lemmy was created by communists, for communists. It’s gonna have communists in it.
Yea but not the cool kind of communists, the lame kind of Communists.
All the cool communists are out in the real world, robbing banks or something.
I though they were running food banks and offering legal aid to poor folks.
Anarchists. Those are anarchists your thinking of.
The communists are doing the thing they do best. Enjoying comfortable positions in western democracies.
deleted by creator
.ml has a lot of cool users.
Unfortunately there are just enough asshats there to taint the entire userbase. I find myself looking askance at any @lemmy.ml, also @hexbear - IMO it’s well deserved. I’d recommend another instance besides those if you want to be taken seriously.
Oh it is deserved, it’s bad leadership, along with a sort of hierarchy, they have like enforcer types as well as their partizans.
If you say the wrong thing they will endlessly troll you, not just from their instance, from other non tankie instances.
Hexbear is the worst.
That said, they have a lot of cool users, you just have to stick to certain issues, politics is a waste of time. Yes things are bad in the west they agree, oh you want to improve it? Fuck you, (their attitude towards me and others not you personally,) there is no making it better only full scale revolution will help, they will say.
Also, you can block the whole instance.
Yup. One of the first things I did.
It’s probably because Americans are wanting a revolution to overthrow the pedophile Zionist class that has highjacked our country ✊🏼🇦🇱
… Albania?
As an example
Lemmy was made by communists, seeking to build an alternative to Reddit where communists will not be able to be fully censored. Federation also is similar to how the USSR was federated, and FOSS attracts the left. As such, many areas on Lemmy are going to be pro-CPC (and supportive of socialist states in general).
This isn’t the case on every instance, though. Each instance has its own political leanings, some very anti-China and anti-communist in general. It depends on the moderation, federation practices, and focus of the instance itself.
Communists tend to be pro-African, especially the Alliance of Sahel States.
The bit about censorship is cute given .ml and honestly .world as well, are both ban happy for any dissent.
But since lemmy is federated, those two communities cannot censor the whole website
Valid point.
Because you have to get your friends to move to Lemmy too so the USSR/PRC loving weirdos become a lower % of total user base. Not kidding.
Nations aren’t worth devotion.
American here. As we all know, America is the only important country in the world so there is little need for African content…
Hi Joe, although with a somewhat heavy heart as I think there are some Americans who would say that seriously. I would also love more South African content. It’s a beautiful country with an interesting if checkered story and I would love to visit it someday.
That said, there are two things you should keep in mind. First off, whatever instance you’re on has a large effect on what you will see on Lemmy, so if you want more African content you might see if there is an instance running in Africa or at least subscribe to communities on that instance. You don’t have to join that instance in order to see them, but you do have to go looking for them.
Second, Lemmy has been largely adopted by a westernized population mostly of American and Western Europe origin, mainly because it provides a fediverse system with an experience similar to Reddit. Thus, much of Lemmy’s traffic is current or ex-redditors, which are mostly from the aforementioned demographics.
Thank you for bringing a new voice to the conversation.
What do you consider pro African content? How do you view various parts of Africa? How do you see US and Chinese actions from an African perspective? How do you tend to get information about them? How do you personally view the presence of the US or China in Africa?
It’s nice to see content that isn’t just about poor or war torn areas. There are nice cities and people do indeed have water, electricity, wi-fi, and so on. First and foremost a lot of people are not political except during elections and most people are more concerned with local or regional politics than what’s happening globally.
Most around here are pro China if asked but they don’t understand the deals that are being done are predatory. The US doesn’t have much presence in east Africa although their recent push to treat Americans who had contact with Ebola in Kenya definitely caused issues. Typically they would be flown home or if not possible treated where they are.
I would say people generally have a negative view of the US and the west but they liked Trump a lot up until the issue with Iran and fuel prices. It’s mostly because of his stance on LGBTQ which is often seen as a western disease and is very unwelcomed in most of Africa (I personally don’t mind what consenting adults do). Also that many believed him to be honest, direct, and a Christian.
The end to USAID was difficult but simultaneously it’s understood it was free money and around here there’s no such thing as free money. Unfortunately most of it (like most things) didn’t reach people in need and found its way to peoples pockets or had harmful outcomes like disrupting local agriculture. Some of it did help and now people are suffering without it.
As for information I’m not a good example of most people given my IT background. Although Twitter and Instagram are popular here and even Reddit in some places. I would say most older people or people without smart phones only have the radio, tv, and of course their local community through which to get news.
There are absolutely pro-authoritarian agitators here who feel the need to inject their venomous or smug anti-west rhetoric at any opportunity, just looking to start an argument or push propaganda.
As far as posts about African nations being ignored I’d say that’s par for the course for the West. We’re wildly ignorant about the continent, so much so that we say that someone is “from Africa” while ignoring the 50+ countries that exist there. Our news doesn’t cover it unless we can bomb it or exploit it.
Have you seen how much bullshit “The West” has been responsible for lately?
I dont think it’s strange at all for there to be a strong undercurrent of anti-western sentiment.
Being angry at “the west” is easy, as it’s an open book.
Let’s investigate other societies and see how transparent their imperial actions are.
Ehhh, not so easy to do…
Whatever.
yeah, but we suffered communism and capitalism already. time to build something good this time.
How about a well executed social democracy?
In no particular order:
Markets are good sometimes
Central planning is good sometimes
Meritocracy is good
Social justice is good
Proper allocation of capital is good
Hoarding capital is bad
Corruption is bad
Democracy is good
Authoritarianism is bad
Properly implemented regulations/rules are good.
Less Anti-West, more like Anti-US. And the China drones are another thing entirely.
That would be understandable, the US is a shame, particularly these days. There are few places with that much wasted potential to make the world a better place.
Putting all patriotism aside, I don’t think there’s any reality in which the US uses its potential to make the world a better place.
The big difference nowadays is that it’s become patently clear that the US government isn’t even trying to make the US a better place.
Yeah, the only reason people are so pissed is because now instead of everyone in the US reaping the benefits of rampant imperialism and global oppression, only the elite are.
Americans are broadly incredibly self-centered and even here on Lemmy the majority of the leftists only consider what is best for them specifically, not what is best for the world.
As the self proclaimed leader of the free world there was a time where there was an attempt but behind it was always those with anterior motives. As for today I wonder what their goal is. Their leader only seems to care for himself alone and anyone following him will likely be left eating dust. That’s not to say the leaders here aren’t exactly the same. In fact I see a lot of similarities between the US and here these days.
…As for today I wonder what their goal is…
There is no goal other than wealth accumulation. It’s a barefaced embrace of the “Gilded Age” corruption and excesses that existed before the bottom fell out in the early 20th century. On a high speed setting.
The underlying vibe is that there is an economic collapse coming (this is why we are in the “Late Stage Capitalism” phase where the middle class is now being eaten alive) and the power brokers and wealthy are grabbing as much as they can before it all falls apart.
Fun times ahead.
America is falling, and this should be an object lesson for the world in what happens when the billionaire classes are allowed to do what they want.
It is okay to set a maximum level of wealth for the ultra wealthy in your country. If not, do everything in your power to limit their policical power.
Protect yourselves.
That’s probably the best way to put it. We used to have a sense of hope here in the US. We could have made things better, raising the global standard. Instead we allowed corporations to poison everything to the point that our leaders are openly evil.
If you had hope in the US, you weren’t paying attention.
Yeah - the whole tankie thing is another matter entirely
Ha ha, no. The US never has, and never will, make the world a better place, in our lifetimes.
Do you think things would be better if they didn’t intervene in WWII? Initially they were staunchly isolationist.
The US spent a lot of money on soft power, essentially bribing countries to go along with their agenda. Much of that money did actually improve people’s lives, whether it was food aid, vaccinations, or AIDS care. Sure, it was to further their own objectives. Sure, it’s mostly because it’s cheaper to buy compliance than to bomb people into compliance. Humanitarian aid with strings attached is still humanitarian aid, though, or the collapse of USAID wouldn’t be such a problem.
Yet at the same time we were couping foreign countries’ democratically elected leaders to put genocidal strong men in power, sponsoring death squads in countries with leftist insurgencies in latin america and elsewhere, and making sure western corporations can get in and take their resources to no benefit and real harm to those countries, paying off and corrupting the aforementioned politicians we helped install because they are corrupt.
To say nothing of how we use sanctions, punishing entire countries to ostensibly create regime change, even though that has NEVER worked, and instead cements those regimes in power as people rally around the flag when attacked from without.
The US hasn’t been the good guy, since maybe world war II, and that was a one off.
I get your point, but the balance of US foreign policy is overwhelmingly bad.
I support a multipolar world order, in a large part because I believe that’s what’s best for developing/non-aligned countries. Since the US has been the sole superpower and has sought to establish itself as the sole global hegemon, using military aggression to expand its influence and power, it seems pretty natural to oppose it and support competition.
If the US and China are both major powers, then non-aligned countries have the freedom to choose who they do business with, which means they have some ability to bargain for a better deal. If the US or the West were the only game in town, then you’d have to accept whatever they offer, or be shut out of the global marketplace. Furthermore, many of the natural resources of poor countries remain in the hands of the Western powers that seized them through force during colonialism (Haiti is still paying reparations to France for freeing the slaves, for example). Ending this system of neocolonialism is a priority, and that requires an alternative economic bloc.
I don’t believe that China invests abroad just out of the kindness of their hearts, however, China has expanded its power through peaceful economic development and trade. China has not been at war with anyone for decades, in contrast to the US which has waged (and is waging) multiple wars of aggression, for the sake of seizing resources. Furthermore, the West will sometimes just decide to steal the assets of poor countries that are invested in their banks, as the did with Venezuela. When has China done this?
Even if you dislike the Chinese system, I see it as a necessity that enabled other systems to survive. The West has a specific system that they want to impose on the entire world, and if you’re the only country not doing that system, you’re screwed. But China is a lot more flexible, and imposes fewer conditions on domestic policy. This in turn limits the ability of the West to impose their policies, because a country can always choose to walk.
I don’t think Haiti is paying reparations to France any more. I believe Citi purchased the debt from France, and Haiti was paying Citi the reparations until 1947.
Some core developers of Lemmy are hardcore tankies and that attracts others.
Also, for someone from Africa it’s weird to claim they are not involved in this. China is strategically investing in African countries. If your country has any mineral or other strategic resources, China is no doubt already there.
Africa as a whole, much like India is waiting for the main players to win/lose to pick sides officially or otherwise take each other out and clear the field. Aka its nothing but silence here on most things. As for china’s investments. Its a mixed bag. Its good to get more honest investments than USAid but simultaneously China is making much more than they are giving. It’s a parasitic loan, not a loan of good faith. Not to include the extreme racism of Chinese influencers coming here and making videos of children saying in Mandarin how they are dumb monkeys and need Chinese enslavement.
cripes.
Yeah it’s not good and if anything around here makes it from the village to the news it’s worse than whatever the news is showing and if that news makes it global I can promise you it is much worse than they are showing.
I love to see dirt on china but I wish there was a better source than BBC since it’s not the most credible outlet (right wing aligned).
Do you have any other sources for this?
Has the political stance of the devs ever impacted lemmy in any way? From what I can tell they do a pretty good job isolating their views to their instance. Honestly apart from a few comments I rarely see any tankies.
Lemmy.ml is tankie breeding grounds.
From what I understand, the devs are not injecting their political views into the Lemmy code. That does not mean they have not had a pro-tankie influence on the Lemmy community. As the original developers, they also set up the first major instance, lemmy.ml and they moderate that instance to have a tankie lean. Since it was the first instance, many people created their first account for it and it was the de facto standard place to start communities. As far as I know, it is still one of the most active instances.
Judging by active users, lemmy.world is the default, .ml isn’t even top 3. I’m getting pretty tired of people referring to Lemmy as a single platform while it’s entire purpose is to have a decentralized network where federation is always optional.
Yes. As per OP, tankies are everywhere in Lemmy. More so than other platforms, it’s hard to miss. OP isn’t wrong about that.
If a user isn’t aware of tankies, they could easily be swayed by the constant posting of pro-CCP crap here.
I keep reading about this, can you show me some examples of pro-CCP sentiment? Tbf I block political communities anyway but I’m curious what tankie behaviour people keep referring too.
just have a look at [email protected] but put your tinfoil hat on before to prevent potential brain damage
Cowbee as well
I went to their instance but only found a single post?
Edit: Oh it’s a community, but it’s contained right? I’m getting pretty tired of people talking about Lemmy in general when a simple defederation solves the issue.
lemmygrad.ml is not federated with many, many other instances exactly because of their authoritarian BS, including dbzer0.com. you might need to log out and visit lemmygrad.ml directly.
If you want the general idea you can also just take a look at [email protected] and search for lemmy.ml.
I went to lemmygrad to view the user, I know about the defederationI didn’t realise you where talking about communities
Very early on there was a hard-coded slur censor list that was eventually changed to be settable by the instance admin, that’s about it.
If you include impact to mean a bunch of bans and defederations, sure?
I’m specifically referring to the devs themselves. Defederation being used exactly how it was intended.
Has dbzer0 defederated from ml?
They haven’t, recently feddit was, but unfamiliar with the details.
I love that you think Africa’s dog in the fight is because China is strategically investing in Africa and chasing mineral and strategic resources when nearly every single African country’s borders were defined by the West, when entire countries were created and colonized by the West, when the US is actively bombing multiple countries in Africa and has been for decades, when the West was literally torturing, raping, kidnapping, murdering, and mass murdering Africans all over the content for centuries, when many African countries are economically subjugated by Western countries to this day by control over currency, predatory loans and structural adjustment programs designed to create dependencies, etc.
Africa’s dog in the fight between the West and Asia comes primarily from the West’s total subjugation of the continent.
And there’s the tankie whataboutism I have been expecting. Everything you said is true, but my point is that China is strategically investing and they don’t care about Africa, only China. African countries very much need to be aware of that.
China is strategically investing and they don’t care about Africa, only China
Yes, sure, it’s not altruistic. But there’s a huge difference between non-violent trade relationships which benefit one party more, and also benefit the other party, just less, and purposefully ensuring that an entire continent is in a constant state of civil war and desperate poverty so you can extract the maximum amount of resources through slavery. China’s foreign policy is absolutely for its own benefit but they’re taking a “rising tide lifts all boats” approach there and while there are some specific things which are fair to criticise it’s way better than what other major powers are doing.
As a westerner, is it really true that all Chinese investors in Africa really don’t care in the continent? It might be true but I have seen no stories showing positive relationships. That may be by design in western media?
Also, what the hell would it mean to you for one country to “care about” a continent? You’re basically doing the meme:
Holy shit? You think this history is whataboutism? The OP said “I don’t have a dog in this fight [because I am from Africa]” and you said “[you should have a dog in the fight because of China’s behavior]”
Hello? Reading comprehension? How does establishing that OP should have a dog in the fight because of Western history in Africa become “whataboutism”?
This is thought termination at its finest
We have a winner
This is irrelevant to OP’s point about Lemmy being pro-CCP.
Are you literally just going to ignore the entire other half of the post asking about why people are anti-western and saying they don’t have a dog in the fight because they are from Africa? Are you that committed to attacking your political opponents that you can’t even see the words that aren’t about your desired debate position?
Found the tankie!
See, this is the issue. Someone doesn’t absolutely obliterate China and the .world liberals all wake up and spout their state department talking points. “China BAD! Leftists tankies!”
What about any of that was untrue? Where’s the tankie part? Cite examples.
Anyone who disagrees with my worldview is a tankie
Who’s the tankie? The person saying that China hasn’t bombed anyone in over 35 years or the person saying “I don’t know why they hate the US so much” when the US attacked over 15 countries with tanks, bombs, drones, and missiles over the exact same time period. Might need to check yourself
Ok tankie.
Anyone else get a suspicious anti-genocide vibe from this place? 😳
Yeah what’s happening to the Uyghur people should probably stop and the suspicious surplus of human organs over the years has been more than interesting.
As you can see from the above example, the users pushing the whole “America is the only bad country! China is amazing and never does anything wrong!” rhetoric are overwhelmingly from a single instance; lemmy.ml.
No matter the topic of conversation, an .ml user just can’t help themselves from virtue signaling in the comments about how much they hate imperialism and how they know that anything bad about China/Russia/NK is literally all Western propaganda.
Yeah it’s a good microcosm for what initiated my post. No matter where I am here I face a lot of this. Me criticizing China doesn’t mean I love the US. Me criticizing the US doesn’t mean I love China. Every nation has skeletons in their closet and we don’t need to act like that isn’t the case.
This is exactly the difference between kids and adults.
You’re reading a lot of posts from kids that wear their hearts on their sleeves and advocate for what they think is the “good” side.
There is a way to block the .ml instance, I did so within the first week I joined.
It winnows out the kids.
Yeah that seems to be what I will do. Now as for what you’re saying, i think someone could be quite old and still a kid.
